Smoking Ban Update

[chris]

JG asked for observations on the smoking ban. Today I was in La Biela, the famous cafe in front of the Recoleta Cemetery. What I saw was better than I could ever have imagined: smokers have been relegated to a very small corner of the vast coffee house. A glass partition (the glass has yet to be installed but I was assured it was on its way) separates smokers from the rest. Think of movies in which family and friends visit prisoners - the room looks like that! Not only is La Biela complying with the letter of the law, they are helping to deter smoking by making those who still smoke feel marginalized, not the other way around. Hats off to La Biela!

 

[realba]

it wouldn't surprise me if the ban were to be a great success, at least in the parts of the city most expats are likely to visit (ie the rich areas). despite the (frankly well-earned) reputation of being serial law breakers, argentines can sometimes be extremely courteous to their neighbours. the very polite argentine spanish gives a clue (rather like british english it can be more for show than heart-felt but it makes life a little more enjoyable). another example would be the argentine penchant for queueing, something you won't experience in any other south american country where pushing, shoving and elbowing others in the face is the trick to getting on the bus first. get on the bus in mendoza and it's all nice, calm and friendly. get off the bus in santiago de chile and be prepared for carnage.in some ways i find it a little sad that the smoking ban has come into force. i used to enjoy the downright ridiculousness of going to the bank and being barely able to see the cashier through the fog of smoke in his little plexi-glass cubicle. but at least i'll be able to go back to mundo bizarro for the first time in well over a year-last time i vowed i'd never go back after waking up the next morning with a hacking cough and stinking of fags. i couldn't see the table 3 metres away the pall of smoke was so bad...

 

[horacew2006]

I'm all for the smoking ban...I am baffled though by your comments regarding "polite" Argentine Spanish. Do you speak Spanish? The truth is it has become coarse and full of expletives. That wa sthe first comment made by a friend who had been away for a decade. He was astonished by the vulgarity of everyday conversation, not to mention TV which has absolutely no limits. Add to that the decline of formality. "Usted" has almost disappeared. You can be 80 years old and be addressed by a stranger as though you were a teeanger!

 

[JG]

I was at Gibraltar pub in san telmo tuesday night. the pool room in back is the designated smoking room. (i didnt know the law allowed that, but fine). that leaves the main room smokefree. it generally was but several people tried to smoke.
My friend in Mendoza just told me that Mendoza enacts a smoking ban as well effective today. I hadnt heard a word about it. Ill ask him later about compliance and reaction.
I share Chris' fear that after a few months, etc., due to lax enforcement (meaning those fines were just for show the first day) that it might lose effect. im not sure at this point, i just think it could happen.
but if businesses arent worried about fines etc., theyll just look the other way and say, oh, i didnt see that person smoking. like the police do when they stand there and a car almost runs me over. no admonishment of the driver, nope.

 

[bigbadwolf]

I share Chris' fear that after a few months, etc., due to lax enforcement (meaning those fines were just for show the first day) that it might lose effect. im not sure at this point, i just think it could happen.
but if businesses arent worried about fines etc., theyll just look the other way and say, oh, i didnt see that person smoking. like the police do when they stand there and a car almost runs me over. no admonishment of the driver, nope.

To be effective it will require sturdy, upright residents like yourself to enforce it and make citizen's arrests when required.

 

[chris]

I have been to several cafes/restaurants this week and have not encountered a single smoker. I have seen staff tell potential smokers that they can not smoke. Today a waiter griped to me that it was unfair (patronage is down so there are fewer tips). I am concerned that enforcement may slack off but my intuition tells me that there will be enough non smokers to insist on enforcement.

 

[BAJoe]

As a gesture of support to the owners and employees of smaller bars and cafes that are complying with the ban, may I respectfully suggest we non-smokers show our approval and satisfaction by showing up more often, maybe consuming more, staying longer, tipping more and thanking them for their compliance with the new law.
I for one, have been limiting my outings for most my life so now I will make a point to the empoloyees and owners that "FINALLY I can come and have a good time in your place!!!". It´s very important that we expats give them some pep talk because no-one else will, except for a few rare locals.
My theory was that many non-smokers, allergics, asthmatics such as myself were refraining from going out, and then they´ld show up in force with a ban like this. Maybe they´re waiting to confirm it´s working. I have not been in Cap. Fed. since the ban, but am looking forward to checking out the situation, will give you an update soon. It´s very important to not let them begin to slack off, or it will be very hard to make them respect the law again.
Joe

 

[igor]

I guess the fact that there is a pretty good chance that many restaurants will get closed doesn't seem to bother anyone. That people will start eating at home more instead of going out. That the nightlife as it exists right now may disappear completely.
After all if it works this way in the States it must be good for Argentina as well, right?
So what's gonna be next? Force bars to put only elevator music on because excessive noise is bad for your eardrums?

 

[Gearjammer]

The smoking laws vary from state to state in the U.S. A lot of places have banned smoking in restaurants but not in bars. And still some restuarants are required to have non-smoking areas that meet certain conditions. And then I think there's a town in Colorado where it's illegal even to smoke outside in public areas. I'm surprised noise laws in bars or restaurants haven't been enacted also. I guess it's possible and I don't know about it. New York is about to pass a law requiring all restaurants to stop using cooking oils with trans-fat such as is used on Mcdonald's french fries and KFC chicken.
I think the smoking ban here might be good in the long run as it might motivate a lot of people to eventually quit, but in the short run it will be hard on businesses. A local Argentine told me the loss in business is expected to be 25% and that there will be places that close. I don't know where he got this statistic. But people will not linger as long ordering drinks, and drinks are the major revenue for restaurants. Of course, when I'm going out with my sister, and her 2 year old, I like not having to spend so much time trying to find a non-smoking place. I think it would've been better for the ban to be for restaurants though and not for bars. But then the question of what's technically a restaurant or what's a bar comes into play. Or maybe they should've waited until the non-smoking culture got more of a hold here. It seems the laws in the U.S. started going into effect already after smoking was becoming socially unacceptable in many circles. Either way, I think the law here will be good in the long run if too many people don't go out of business. But then, what about the pollution? I was riding a bus yesterday and whenever we stopped smoke from the exhaust came pouring into the windows. I don't know, but I would suspect those exhaust fumes could be more damaging than second-hand smoke when inhaled directly like that.

 

[JG]

The medical science is clear and irrefutable. I dont believe its a point of "social sanctioning", no matter how much some people like me hate tobacco smoke. Its merely a matter of survival.
Second-hand smoke harms everyone exposed to it and its accumulative. Smoking tobacco results in early death and a host of serious diseases. The day I returned home in July, a good friend back home died of lung cancer (only diagnosed a few months earlier). To my knowledge, he liked bars, but never smoked in his life.
When someone wins, someone often has to lose. In this case, those who want to live win (lucky us!), those who choose to risk their health or not seek medical help for their addiction lose. They are free to yellow their teeth and inhale all day long, just not in enclosed public places.
I believe strongly in civil liberties and dont want to prohibit any behavior unless its absolutely necessary. The oncologist president of Uruguay saw clearly it was necessary and enacted a nationwide law. Now certain Argentine municipalities have chosen (with democratic imput and debate?) to do the same basing their decision on the current medical science.
I dont want the smokers to take me with them to the grave, just because they cant stop smoking, that they need to light one after another, then comes another. And all for what? because it feels good!
Theres a few things i can think of that feel mighty good (wink, wink) and dont put anyone elses health at risk, YET most people wouldnt allow it in public or while others eat or type letters to their family.
I remain curious if people are finding smoke free rooms.