The Finger

BienTeVeo

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Not sure if this has been talked about before, but...

The raising the middle finger seems to have been adopted as the hand gesture of choice of the anti-K crowd. There's an awful lot of bird-flipping going on out there. It's featured prominently on Lanata's Sunday night tv show (the soundtrack of which is Lily Allen's "#&%$ You Very Much").

Regardless of one's politics (and I tend to sympathize with Lanata), I have to say I wish they'd give it a rest. Granted, it doesn't carry the same weight here as it does, say, in The Bronx. Still it's vulgar, and isn't exactly known for moving the conversation forward. A blunt instrument if ever there was one....
 
I think it's pretty ugly too, but Argentines in general curse quite a bit. The playing of the Lily Allen song is also pretty tacky as well. I don't know if they truly want dialogue with the president. If they do, telling her to F off isn't the way to go about doing it.
 
bradlyhale said:
I think it's pretty ugly too, but Argentines in general curse quite a bit. The playing of the Lily Allen song is also pretty tacky as well. I don't know if they truly want dialogue with the president. If they do, telling her to F off isn't the way to go about doing it.

I think they realise they will never have dialogue with her anyway. She has made it pretty clear she won't talk to certain people she doen't like or sections of the media or take a question from someone who isn't planted in the audience or…
 
erian said:
I think they realise they will never have dialogue with her anyway. She has made it pretty clear she won't talk to certain people she doen't like or sections of the media or take a question from someone who isn't planted in the audience or…

Come on, grow up.

I'm very neutral when it comes to CFK. I think she has done good things and bad things. The folks on "678" do not play Lily Allen songs and flip the bird.

Lanata's show would get 10/10 from me if he tossed this element. There's a lot of stuff to criticize her over. Telling her to F-off gets us nowhere.
 
bradlyhale said:
Come on, grow up.

I'm very neutral when it comes to CFK. I think she has done good things and bad things. The folks on "678" do not play Lily Allen songs and flip the bird.

Lanata's show would get 10/10 from me if he tossed this element. There's a lot of stuff to criticize her over. Telling her to F-off gets us nowhere.

I didn't condone using the finger or the even mention the song. I just said that they probably already know she would never talk to them in any meaningful way. Take her and Macri and the way she behaves like a child!

I am not very politically minded, CFK anti-CFK. Just commenting on what i see. And mate I don't need to grow up so lose the attitude!
 
The finger part would be a response to 678 "buena onda, good vibe" photographs of people smiling to the camera, which in turn is a response to what is deemed as a negative-only portrayal of things by the opposition media.
 
It's definitely cringeworthy - not because it offends my delicate sensibilities, but because it fuels the same fire the Kirchners have been stoking: dividing Argentines into friends and enemies. In a country with a history like Argentina's, this is a very dangerous game for either side to be playing.
 
I'm not saying I agree with the bird-flipping (I don't think it does any good, but I also don't think that it has any other effect on the outcome anyway), but I have to ask - why do people think it's even the slightest bit important to try to keep some sort of dialogue going with Cristina?

She has made it crystal clear that she should be feared about equally as much as God, that she is the reincarnation of a mix of Eva and Peron, that anyone who disagrees with her deserves scorn and ridicule and harassment. She's told international audiences that the Argentinos have selected their president, in Argentina the president rules, and she's the Argentine president that was selected.

She shows no desire to compromise whatsoever, to hear disparate opinions, to consider other possibilities, and seems bent on accomplishing her aims no matter what it takes (actually reminds me of Pelosi's statement a few years ago on what the Democrats were going to do to make sure the American people, no matter how far from a consensus there was on something so overwhelmingly important, got the health bill that they determined was best for EVERYONE, whether or not they liked it. All those who were against it were wrong and she and her fellow fighters were going to do everything to make sure it was placed into the body of law of the nation. I sure wanted to giver HER the finger when she was talking like that!).

I despise political correctness. I'm not a racist person. I'm not a sexist person. Or, at the very least, I try every day to ensure that I try as hard as I can to be fair. (This [political correctness] reminds me of a comedy skit that a friend of mine told me about just last night - it's a "commercial." They show a black guy in a shot and he says "I'm proud to be black!" They show a white guy and he says "I'm proud to be white!" The black guy looks at the white guy and says "You're a racist!")

Why do I mention political correctness?

In my opinion (yeah I have one of those, too!), Cristina is extreme in what she's trying to do and doesn't care about how she does it, given her attitude and her very obvious support of corruption that benefits her.

Even if one AGREES with her ideas themselves, how can anyone agree with her METHODS unless there is little care for the actual rule of law, and not just a farce made easy by the great amount of corruption and the relative ease of controlling the other two branches of government and changing things so important like the constitution? A republic with three separate powers is not controlled by one of those powers, by definition.

To me, saying one is not offended by the "finger" but doesn't like using that in a political battle such as we're seeing in Argentina today, given the finger that Cristina and her cronies give the rest of the populace everyday (even those who she is supposedly FOR) - well, it seems like something founded in political correctness to me.

I could be wrong about that. It could be that some people feel the debate should always be as friendly as possible, NO MATTER HOW the opposition approaches the debate.

Personally, I TRY to treat people the way that they treat me. Treat me with respect and try to convince me of your point of view, and I'll listen and make my own judgment, and will respond as politely and reasonably as I can with my own points. I may come to see some of what you're saying, and you may even come to see some of what I'm saying. Debate is healthy and necessary when deciding the fate of anything important.

Treat me with scorn or derision or disrespect, tell me that you have no care about how I feel about something, that you know better and are doing things for my own good, and I'm not going to even bother to debate you, nor listen to you nor even worry about what it is you want.

That type of person has nothing to give me. In fact, I have even found myself giving that person the finger, political correctness or not :)
 
ElQueso said:
I'm not saying I agree with the bird-flipping (I don't think it does any good, but I also don't think that it has any other effect on the outcome anyway), but I have to ask - why do people think it's even the slightest bit important to try to keep some sort of dialogue going with Cristina?

Regarding her comment about fearing God and her just a little, Clarin took the comment out of context, and made it seem as though she had said that for everyone in the country. In fact, had anyone actually watched her speech, she directed that comment to the people she has appointed in the government, e.g. her ministers. And clearly she never compared herself to God.

I don't think it's about political correctness. It's about manners. Again, there are valid criticisms of CFK and her administration. (Inflation being the biggest in my opinion, and she totally bombed yesterday when responding to that issue.) However, you can't expect someone to have a dialogue with a group of people that openly tell her to F-off, nor should we expect her to sit down with journalists who knowingly and willingly manipulate what she says.
 
Doesn't bother me. They're just words, and English curse words don't hold a lot of weight here.

What's embarrassing is riding in the car with your inlaws and having to keep a straight face as a song on the radio blares something like "pussy pussy pussy marihuana." It's even worse when they ask "so what's this song about?" :p



The middle finger on Lanata isn't what's stopping dialogue. ;) Cristina doesn't like any criticism at all, and Lanata certainly isn't going to throw flowers at her.

I don't think Lanata attacks people that support Cristina, rather he focuses the criticism on Cristina and her cronies. He doesn't use words like "right wing nuts" or "pinkos"... or if you vote for Cristina you're a fascist or an idiot... which are truly divisive words. He doesn't attack people for being in a certain income bracket, for thinking a certain way, or even for voting for Cristina. At least I've never heard him say anything of the sort.

The F you isn't directly at other voters, it is directed at her, to corruption, to the government in general. If one thing, Argentines recognize when they've been duped... they are not as fanatically loyal to their political party or leader as people are elsewhere. :rolleyes: Criticism of a political leader or administration (especially with facts) shouldn't be taken as a personal assault.
 
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