Trump: Argentina is fighting for its life, they are dying

[DarrenKK]

“can afford to buy, or inherit”. That could even be interpreted the way you probably didnt intend it. That is to say those who can afford to inherit!
Too many million dollar properties up in Olivos, San Isidro etc, owned by people without cash to their name that can’t keep up with bills and maintenance.
Let that sink in.
It’s weird and unique for sure.

 

[ArgentinaVet]

No property taxes, and no mortgages, means those who can afford to buy, or inherit, virtually never lose their homes, regardless of the economy.

No property taxes ? That's certainly not the case in CABA as ABL is most certainly a property tax and Bienes Personales is an asset tax, is in some sense a property tax in a country where the only asset most people have is real property.

 

[Ries]

No property taxes ? That's certainly not the case in CABA as ABL is most certainly a property tax and Bienes Personales is an asset tax, is in some sense a property tax in a country where the only asset most people have is real property.

abl is not applicable to that 35,000 hectaire estancia that has been in the family for 200 years.
I have been paying abl since 2007.
Its based on extremely low purchase prices, and compared to property taxes in most first world countries, its a joke.
My ABL here is about the same as my monthly garbage pickup bill in rural Washington State.

If you look at taxes as a percentage of government revenue, for example, NYC gets 27% of its yearly income from property taxes.
ABL in CABA pays for street lighting and street cleaning, in theory.
In practice ABL pays for about 1/3 of that expense.
Its something like .5% of City revenue, if that.

So, no, ABL is not comparable to a real property tax, and it certainly is not a factor in forcing people to sell property, or affects sales prices in any way.

 

[Ries]

“can afford to buy, or inherit”. That could even be interpreted the way you probably didnt intend it. That is to say those who can afford to inherit!
Too many million dollar properties up in Olivos, San Isidro etc, owned by people without cash to their name that can’t keep up with bills and maintenance.
Let that sink in.
It’s weird and unique for sure.

Until very recently, it was practically extremely difficult to evict renters, much less confiscate properties for lack of tax payments.
It is so difficult to get rid of an apartment owner who doesnt pay their expensas, that most consorcio's dont even try.
I know people who, when buying, had to individually contact 16, or even 32 people, to get each to sign off their ownership share, then pay 10 years in back taxes on closing.
So yes, I would totally agree there are many people, in every part of the country, who own properties they cannot afford to maintain, and who go more in theoretical debt every month.
But, at closing, back taxes, utilities, and loans must be paid before the seller gets their share.
Its literally a Napoleonic system...

 

[ArgentinaVet]

abl is not applicable to that 35,000 hectaire estancia that has been in the family for 200 years.
I have been paying abl since 2007.
Its based on extremely low purchase prices, and compared to property taxes in most first world countries, its a joke.
My ABL here is about the same as my monthly garbage pickup bill in rural Washington State.

If you look at taxes as a percentage of government revenue, for example, NYC gets 27% of its yearly income from property taxes.
ABL in CABA pays for street lighting and street cleaning, in theory.
In practice ABL pays for about 1/3 of that expense.
Its something like .5% of City revenue, if that.

So, no, ABL is not comparable to a real property tax, and it certainly is not a factor in forcing people to sell property, or affects sales prices in any way.

There are no 35,000 hectares estates in CABA; I have no idea what happens in rural areas or urban areas in other jurisdictions.
I can tell you that I pay over 1.7 million pesos per month in ABL and about 1 million pesos per month in bienes personales on real property.
That's about $1800-$2000 USD per month in property taxes and this is at ridiculously low "valor fiscal" that is well below market rates, which is a situation that is unlikely to last forever (meaning "valor fiscal" will eventually become much closer to market value and thus both ABL and bienes personales will go up).
As it stands, property taxes + bienes personales in CABA are about 2.9% of "valor fiscal".
In Florida my property taxes are about 2% of assessed values.
So please do not make claims that's there are no "property taxes" in CABA.

 

[Ries]

I dont know any of your specifics, so I cant comment on whether your ABL is high or not.
I know that in the last 45 years, I have owned and paid taxes on at least 8 different properties (not all at once) in the USA, commercial buildings, raw land, single family homes, and ag land, in 3 different states and 2 major cities.

So I have a pretty good handle on a wide range of types of property, and the taxes they require, in the US.

And I have, since 2007, owned 2 residential and 1 commercial property in Argentina (again, not all at once)

And in my experience, Argentine ABL taxes are much much less for equivalent properties and equivalent market values.

Bienes is a whole different tax- a tax on assets, which, again, most argentines are exempt from, since its pretty narrowly levied.
It is a small fraction of the 37 % top income tax rate in the USA, which brings in much more revenue to the government there than the Bienes does here.

Plus- In the USA, my property taxes include payments to the State General Fund, the County General Fund, School Bonds, Utility districts, and, currently, Dike District and Port District bonds.

In Argentina, my ABL is a directed utility bill, in essence, which does not go to any of the above- instead, its just street cleaning and streetlights, and, in reality, the ABL taxes are not enough to even pay for that.

So I dont see much similarity.
My monthly ABL here is about the same as my garbage collection bill, monthly, in the USA. Its less than my water bill, or my electrical bill.

Everybody is different, and can afford different things.
But the wealthy here pay much much less in taxes than in most other developed countries- no inheritance taxes, ABL mostly only in CABA, no general fund property taxes pretty much anywhere, no school bond taxes, and at last report, out of over 40 million Argentines, only less than 100,000 pay Income tax.

And my experience has been that property, be it departmentos in Recoleta, or Estancias in the Provincias, stay in the family for generations, since there is no taxation on almost all of it beyond utilities, and expensas in buildings.