Venezuela Expropriates Properties Leased More Than 20 Years

[EdRooney]

I understand there is this huge "Venezuelaisation of Argentina problem" amongst the Belgrano cognoscenti and expats on this site, but could someone please give me concrete examples of how recent policy has imitated Venezuela into some kind of Stalinist spiral? (and please don't start with the cepo, because capital controls and limiting forex transactions is hardly unique to the "bolivarians").

And while you're at it, can you please explain how Maduro's govt is any more fascist than say the UK's or the US's, with their drones, black sites and prison complex, or their heavily-funded allies like the Saudis or the Egyptian junta?

Thanks in advance!

 

[internationalguy]

Somehow discussions here always either end in pizza or Allende, but as far as Allende is concerned, I have always believed that he was never willing to use violence against protesters/political opponents, although various accounts suggest the Soviet Union/KGB advised him to do so. Maduro is just a brain-washed bus driver who gets paid by the Castro brothers to carry out their colonization plans. Even about mr. Chávez there was something sympathetic, but Maduro is a clown, and not of the good sort.

What are you talking about? He's like St. Francis... animals talk to him (remember when a bird appeared to him right after Chavez's death? ). You clearly don't care about the poor or the memory of blessed Mr. Chavez. Shame on you.


(Just to be very clear. It's not humanly possible to be more sarcastic than I was above)

 

[ajoknoblauch]

I understand there is this huge "Venezuelaisation of Argentina problem" amongst the Belgrano cognoscenti and expats on this site, but could someone please give me concrete examples of how recent policy has imitated Venezuela into some kind of Stalinist spiral? (and please don't start with the cepo, because capital controls and limiting forex transactions is hardly unique to the "bolivarians").

And while you're at it, can you please explain how Maduro's govt is any more fascist than say the UK's or the US's, with their drones, black sites and prison complex, or their heavily-funded allies like the Saudis or the Egyptian junta?

Thanks in advance!

"Argenzuela" is the word!

 

[London2Baires]

In the US, the O'bama and BushJr administrations shovelled trillions of tax dollars to a handful of bankers/campaign contributors, leading to vastly increased poverty, unemployment levels and a devastated labour market that show no signs of recovery, and an institutionalised system of political corruption. What are the chances that this might happen here?

I can answer this and probably all of your questions, but first....you must choose:

 

[Yogur griego]

I'd be happy to write a critical comparison of Argentine and Venezuelan politics here when it's not 3 at night in my first world time zone, although, when remembering the speed at which discussions spiral out of control on these forums, I expect others to do so before I can.

However, I just want to say now that after so many years of reading the usual criticism of modern Western societies in similar threads, I am a bit tired of seeing the same kind of generalized replies in every discussion about a specific country that inevitably link the current subject with the NSA, the Republicans or The War Of Terror (thanks, Borat!). I am concerned about those things too, and I am cynical enough not to ignore them.

I think it's definitely an excellent thing to be critical of the many extremely hypocritical things that happen inside or outside the freedom-preaching usual suspects. These forums are inhabited by a large tribe of yanquis, and comparisons with the good old home country are inevitable, wherever you are from. But I don't see why the problems of countries like the US and Great Britain always seem to make repression in Latin America so justifiable. I enjoy being critical of all kinds of political systems, and I just happen to be specifically interested in some Latin American countries. I have studied their issues more than some of the more general issues.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

To be clear, I believe the Venezuelan law is to sell properties to the persons who have continually lived in the property for more than 20 years. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would expect that to be a very small percentage of the rental population.

Argentina plays the card on both sides, when they like it they play the Boliviano card. Other times, they play the European card because, well, they think they are above everyone else in South America. Just depends on which serves the best purpose.

I don't see the land expropriation happening here. They need all the flags to fly in one direction during the next 18-24 months. That direction is, "We are trying our best, lend us some money." Examples are negotiating with the Paris Club, negotiating with the hedge funds, negotiating with private banks, settling with Repsol for YPF, producing real inflationary numbers, devaluing the Peso, cutting subsidies, etc etc.

 

[Yogur griego]

Argentina plays the card on both sides, when they like it they play the Boliviano card. Other times, they play the European card because, well, they think they are above everyone else in South America. Just depends on which serves the best purpose.

Excellent comment,

I forgot to mention the Paris Club issue, you're completely right about that.

 

[EdRooney]

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OK maybe we're both guilty of generalising the other, but i missed the part where anyone was 'justifying' repression here. What I think is missing (as per always on this site) is context. For me I find the Maduro/Chavez governments far too repressive, but they can only dream of the type of repression that the home countries of 95% of the expats here achieve. Comparatively, theyre rather mild when taking into account most other governments.

For example, this comparing of Venezuela to some kind of Maoist anti-christ seems to me to be an artifice of Washington propaganda that has little to nothing to do with the objective facts, but which is easily swallowed up by a handful of Argentines and a great number of posters here. If I included you in this latter group unreasonably I apologise, but I still do not see any contextual foundation for calling the Maduro govt fascists as you did, so I would appreciate some factual clarifications.

 

[Redpossum]

In the US, the O'bama and BushJr administrations shovelled trillions of tax dollars to a handful of bankers/campaign contributors, leading to vastly increased poverty, unemployment levels and a devastated labour market that show no signs of recovery, and an institutionalised system of political corruption. What are the chances that this might happen here?

Holy Cow! Somebody call the Guinness Book. Rooney just made an actual serious comment. No offense, bro, but this is the first time I've seen anything from you other than zany humor and throwaway one-liners. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, you're vastly amusing, and sometimes you're scathingly ironic, all of which I appreciate. You've made me laugh out loud several times. I've just never heard you be serious before.

And I even agree with what you're saying; I'd have liked that comment five times if I could

***edit***

Yes! GO! When you come out, you come all the way out. Three in a row, serious comments from a respectably Socialist perspective. You are my new hero. Go get 'em, Rooney!

 

[London2Baires]

I'd be happy to write a critical comparison of Argentine and Venezuelan politics here when it's not 3 at night in my first world time zone, although, when remembering the speed at which discussions spiral out of control on these forums, I expect others to do so before I can.

However, I just want to say now that after so many years of reading the usual criticism of modern Western societies in similar threads, I am a bit tired of seeing the same kind of generalized replies in every discussion about a specific country that inevitably link the current subject with the NSA, the Republicans or The War Of Terror (thanks, Borat!). I am concerned about those things too, and I am cynical enough not to ignore them.

I think it's definitely an excellent thing to be critical of the many extremely hypocritical things that happen inside or outside the freedom-preaching usual suspects. These forums are inhabited by a large tribe of yanquis, and comparisons with the good old home country are inevitable, wherever you are from. But I don't see why the problems of countries like the US and Great Britain always seem to make repression in Latin America so justifiable. I enjoy being critical of all kinds of political systems, and I just happen to be specifically interested in some Latin American countries. I have studied their issues more than some of the more general issues.

Although I don't agree with all of what you've just said it is certainly the case that a significant proportion of posters on these threads seem to take a biased and misplaced comparative analysis on particular geo-political issues. What I mean by this is that certain posters will demonize one set of countries or ideological perspectives while glorifying what they hold to be the opposing group or ideology. This plays into an ill informed simplistic binary of 'us versus them' and is in no small part a foundational problem which to a degree explains the negative and destructive realities which form the 'substance' of many of the very debates at issue.

This being said, it is also true that corruption (both of the economic, but more importantly of the political and moral kind) seem endemic in all of the current global polities. Taking this as one axiom of global geo-politics and then at the same time understanding a context and relative distribution of global power viz a viz the 1st and 3rd world countries may lead one to think that the onus of change ought to be on those who hold the most power, and who therefore have the most chance, of 'making things right'.

This is not to say that local or 3rd world issues are not important or that these countries have no power to make changes themselves, rather that the ability to make systemic change across a globalised reality is far easier to achieve when the impetus comes from those who hold most of the cards.