Visa Applications While Overstaying

[elflyingkiwi]

Hi all,

Does anybody have any experience and/or advice for applying for a visa from within Argentina while overstaying/having an irregular migration status?

I was recently given the advice that leaving the country and re-entering was not a good idea in the current environment due to the increased likelihood of being denied re-entry. I am in the process of gathering the documents I need to apply for a temporary resident visa but this process is taking forever and I am now in a position where I have overstayed.

Does anyone have any experience in applying for a visa from this situation?

In light of recent migration crackdowns/reforms, I don't know if migraciones will look unkindly on the fact that I will be applying for a visa from the position of having an irregular migration status. I have not been able to get any clear guidance about whether or not your migration status makes a significant difference to the likelihood of your application being approved.

The challenge I have is that I am only looking to stay in the country for a few more months, so I don't know whether overstaying and paying the fine or taking the risk and applying for a visa is the better option at this point. Overstaying doesn't sit well with me personally but at the same time it seems pointless to spend a whole bunch of time and money applying for a visa if it is ultimately just going to get rejected.

Anyone have any advice?

Thanks!

 

[elhombresinnombre]

I completely understand your stance on overstaying: I'd feel the same. How long is "a few months" and do you have an actual exit plan? If it is all as short and straightforward as it seems then my gut feeling is that just overstaying and paying the fine would be the least complicated way for everyone including yourself.

 

[FrankPintor]

My suggestion would be to look for a "gestor", or visa facilitator. You need someone who knows their way around Migraciones, and who has contacts there. If you want to PM me, I can share the contact of the facilitator who helped me get my initial temporary visas.

 

[Alby]

In light of recent migration crackdowns/reforms, I don't know if migraciones will look unkindly on the fact that I will be applying for a visa from the position of having an irregular migration status. I have not been able to get any clear guidance about whether or not your migration status makes a significant difference to the likelihood of your application being approved.

The challenge I have is that I am only looking to stay in the country for a few more months, so I don't know whether overstaying and paying the fine or taking the risk and applying for a visa is the better option at this point. Overstaying doesn't sit well with me personally but at the same time it seems pointless to spend a whole bunch of time and money applying for a visa if it is ultimately just going to get rejected.

A little unclear I think: "I am only looking to stay in the country for a few more months". Why go to all the trouble and expense of obtaining the documents and preparing a temporary residency application if you are planning to leave soon? You are already irregular and will remain so until they accept your documents and issue you a precaria. That may itself be months off, so if your dilemma is a moral one, you are stuck with it for the foreseeable. If you are leaving in "a few months" (with every likelihood that the date of becoming regular with a precaria more or less coincides with your planned departure date) and not planning to return and use any temporary residency they might eventually grant you, it seems like a no-brainer: just overstay. The "investment of time and money" is less of a waste because the application might be rejected than it is a waste due to the fact that you would not actually use the residency they might grant.

I also think the main risk here is not that they might reject the application because you are "irregular", but that, by presenting yourself to Migraciones (albeit with application documents in hand) but being illegally in the country, you give yourself up as immediately deportable. It is certainly an interesting question that it would be good to know the answer to: what do Migraciones do with someone who has overstayed their tourist entry and presents themself at Migraciones premises? That's what you need guidance on in the first instance, not whether they are more or less likely to approve your application in that circumstance.

What temporary residence category are you applying under?

 

[steveinbsas]

Hi all,

Does anybody have any experience and/or advice for applying for a visa from within Argentina while overstaying/having an irregular migration status?

I was recently given the advice that leaving the country and re-entering was not a good idea in the current environment due to the increased likelihood of being denied re-entry. I am in the process of gathering the documents I need to apply for a temporary resident visa but this process is taking forever and I am now in a position where I have overstayed.

If you have overstayed for less than 30 days you can still get the 90 day extension (prorroga de permanencia) by paying 50% more for the extension (total mas o menos $7000 pesos).

Does anyone have any experience in applying for a visa from this situation?

In light of recent migration crackdowns/reforms, I don't know if migraciones will look unkindly on the fact that I will be applying for a visa from the position of having an irregular migration status. I have not been able to get any clear guidance about whether or not your migration status makes a significant difference to the likelihood of your application being approved.

Your immigracion status at the time you apply should not make a difference. All that will matter is whether or not you qualify.

The challenge I have is that I am only looking to stay in the country for a few more months, so I don't know whether overstaying and paying the fine or taking the risk and applying for a visa is the better option at this point. Overstaying doesn't sit well with me personally but at the same time it seems pointless to spend a whole bunch of time and money applying for a visa if it is ultimately just going to get rejected

If you are going to leave in a few months, I don't think there's any point in applying for temporary residency now, even though I don't think your current overstay would be an obstacle to getting temporary residency. I believe that migraciones actually wants people to regularize their status, but in your case, unless you do want to return soon, even they would say it's pointless.

The new decree is in effect now, but it might be voted down soon. Even if it isn't, in the near future,b I don't think migraciones is going to start hunting down and deporting those who legally entered the country and have overstayed by a few months or even a year. Before that, I think they will begin denying entry to those who have previously overstayed, and we'll hear about it here.

Anyone have any advice?

Thanks!

I think the worst case scenario for you would be for migraciones to give you ten days to leave the country after issuing a deportation order, but how likely is that to happen? If you don't actually apply for temporary residency before you are ready to leave the country, you probably won't be in their cross hairs before then, and you will be able to pay the fine when you leave without any drama.

The only reason for you to apply for temporary residency now would be if you actually want to return to Argentina within six months of your departure and spend at least six of the following twelve months in the country.

PS: I don't think migraciones will consider a single overstay as "abuse of the tourist visa," and if you try to return six months later, you probably won't encounter a border official who even mentions it.

 

[Alby]

Think through the mechanical process. Assuming you gather enough documents, bring them into the country and have them translated, you then have to upload them to the system, with your passport and street address (certificado de domicilio). In normal circumstances (the applicant is legal in Argentina), the system would then generate an invitation to present with the hard copy originals to Migraciones to have a photo and fingerprints taken and the precaria issued, pending assessment of the application. In abnormal circumstances (the system shows this passport holder to be illegally in the country), you may have done nothing more than invite a visit to your address from Migraciones to issue a deportation order. That's the risk.

 

[devilclam]

Hi all,

Does anybody have any experience and/or advice for applying for a visa from within Argentina while overstaying/having an irregular migration status?

I was recently given the advice that leaving the country and re-entering was not a good idea in the current environment due to the increased likelihood of being denied re-entry. I am in the process of gathering the documents I need to apply for a temporary resident visa but this process is taking forever and I am now in a position where I have overstayed.

Does anyone have any experience in applying for a visa from this situation?

In light of recent migration crackdowns/reforms, I don't know if migraciones will look unkindly on the fact that I will be applying for a visa from the position of having an irregular migration status. I have not been able to get any clear guidance about whether or not your migration status makes a significant difference to the likelihood of your application being approved.

The challenge I have is that I am only looking to stay in the country for a few more months, so I don't know whether overstaying and paying the fine or taking the risk and applying for a visa is the better option at this point. Overstaying doesn't sit well with me personally but at the same time it seems pointless to spend a whole bunch of time and money applying for a visa if it is ultimately just going to get rejected.

Anyone have any advice?

Thanks!

This may or may not be helpful, but I recently re-entered on Saturday post-decree and had no issues.

Granted I'm a blonde/blue eyed white lady from the US, but I've never run into any issues in the last 2.5 years. I've just made it a point to never overstay just to keep things tidy.

 

[steveinbsas]

...the main risk here is not that they might reject the application because you are "irregular", but that, by presenting yourself to Migraciones (albeit with application documents in hand) but being illegally in the country, you give yourself up as immediately deportable.

I wonder if migraciones would actually detain (aka arrest) someone who presented theirself to appy for temporary residency because they are in the country "illegally" on the basis of a brief overstay (after entering the country legally), and as a result of having an "irregular" immigration status by a single overstay, has commited an immediately exportable crime?

I once (some years ago) suggested this in reply to someone who asked how many times it was possible to appy for temporary residency after being denied. I was scolded here for "scaring people" less than 30 minutes after making the post in which I advised that person not to return to migraciones on the chance they could be subject to being arrested and deported, something an Argentine lawyer once said could happen, but as far as I know, has never happened to any members of this forum

I can only speak for myself, but I have little doubt that, just as he has in the past, his advice to the OP will be to stay as far away from the office of migraciones as possible and just pay the fine when they leave the country.

 

[Alby]

Well, there is no way of knowing whether Flying's overstay at this hypothetical future point will have been 'brief'. But, thinking the matter through further (see the subsequent post), I think in practical terms, s/he may not even get to go to an office of Migraciones. By applying electronically, s/he is issuing an invitation to them to not even review the documentation, but instead come straight to his or her home, if they are serious now about enforcing the rules.

 

[elflyingkiwi]

A little unclear I think: "I am only looking to stay in the country for a few more months".

I'll provide some more context - I'm only really looking to stay another 6 months at most. I will be leaving the country before the end of the year.

Why go to all the trouble and expense of obtaining the documents and preparing a temporary residency application if you are planning to leave soon?

It's primarily because I don't like the idea of overstaying - as you say, a moral dilemma more than anything else. I would rather do the "right" thing and try to regularise myself if I can, but my main concern (as many people have pointed out in this thread) is that by presenting myself to migraciones I'm basically just putting myself on their target list.

If you have overstayed for less than 30 days you can still get the 90 day extension (prorroga de permanencia) by paying 50% more for the extension (total mas o menos $7000 pesos).

I was told by a lawyer that migraciones will not grant any tourist visa extensions if the visa has already expired. The Argentine government's own webpage contradicts this advice, so I have no idea what is actually true.

what do Migraciones do with someone who has overstayed their tourist entry and presents themself at Migraciones premises?

The advice I was given about this (from an Argentine immigration lawyer) is that you actually "regularise" yourself when you make an application for another visa. Migraciones may eventually reject your application and then tell you to leave, but you apparently have a regular migration status while they are considering your application. I don't know if I 100% believe this and I suspect that if it is true it may only be true if you lodge your application through a lawyer/gestor/visa facilitator or someone else who has contacts in migraciones.

But this question is essentially my conundrum at its core. Are you better to present yourself at migraciones and apply for something or just lay low and deal with them when you leave?

Well, there is no way of knowing whether Flying's overstay at this hypothetical future point will have been 'brief'

If I were to overstay until the end of the year, I will overstayed by around 6 months in total.