What a year under a climate-change denying president has done for the country

[FrankPintor]

Give me a year when do you think the world will end because of climate change?

Climate change founder and billionaire Al Gore says in 2000 there will be no more ice at the poles by 2015

AOC says the world will end by 2029

When is your guess?

I am not apocalyptic about this. The world is getting warmer (unevenly, Ireland is unfortunately getting colder). There's less and less ice at the poles, but still, the world is not going to end. There will be less drinkable water in some places. Personally, I think I can manage, I can move somewhere cooler if needed. Lots of places to go in Argentina.

Why do you want to bring US politics to an Argentinian forum?

 

[VincentKMcMahon]

I am not apocalyptic about this. The world is getting warmer (unevenly, Ireland is unfortunately getting colder). There's less and less ice at the poles, but still, the world is not going to end. There will be less drinkable water in some places. Personally, I think I can manage, I can move somewhere cooler if needed. Lots of places to go in Argentina.

Why do you want to bring US politics to an Argentinian forum?

There isn't less ice at the poles. There is actually more but a lot of jobs depend on reporting otherwise. How many climate scientists voted for Trump? You will laugh and say "obviously zero LOL" But isn't that the problem? There is no divergence of opinion in the scientific community. They all agree and anyone who doesn't is banished and cancelled. Is this the true spirit of science?

 

[Ries]

To be fair, Venezuela managed to fubar itself all on its own. Quite a few of the first wave of PDVSA engineers came south to Argentina, where they were much appreciated. The second wave, educated and trained under Chavez, not so much.

The counter-examples to your thesis are, of course, Chile (copper) and Norway (oil). It will be interesting to see how Guyana fares.

And about shirking cleanup costs, isn't that the "sharing economy" writ small? Like, we'll share your environment, but you'll pay for it. Musk, Uber, Zuckerberg, and so on just thought bigger.

So you are saying that Chevron contributed greatly to Venezuela, but Maduro just stole all their work? color me dubious.
Chile is a one product country- copper is a huge amount of the national income. And it is not evenly distributed, nor has it eliminated poverty or built a modern utopia. The local companies make money, but virtually all the real mines and profits are multinationals, who export the profits along with the copper.

Norway is a unique case- the government charges foreign oil companies a 50% or higher tax on gross revenues, not profits, and controls the oil industry more than pretty much anywhere on earth. As a result, Norwegians actually benefit enormously as individual citizens from the oil wealth.
Nothing like that is being proposed here.

 

[Ries]

If Milei wanted to emulate the Norwegians, I would have no problem with it. But he doesnt. https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/economy/governments-revenues/

 

[Ries]

Whew! For a moment I thought you were serious. Fortunately we have a long tradition of irony on BA Expats. Welcome to the club.

Though, I wonder? You don't drink wine? Never been to Mendoza? Never wondered about why the vineyards are moving up the mountains to places like Valle de Uco and beyond? To places grapes could never be grown before. It's a cult?

even the French wine industry, which is pretty hidebound, is open about admitting that climate change is changing the way French wine tastes, increasing the alcohol content, and that the future will require changing varieties.

Climate change: Are French vineyards under threat of disappearing?

What are the problems that vineyards face because of global warming?

www.idealwine.info

 

[elhombresinnombre]

Spoiler Alert! The world is NOT going to end. WE are going to end. And the world will get on just fine without us.

 

[daveholman]

Wrong. Daylight robbery and undermining democratic institutions are the root cause. Possibly coming to a cinema near here. You don't have arguments, you have shibboleths. Please don't come to a gunfight unarmed.

Just because someone says they're something, doesn't mean they are. Javier Milei claims to be liberal, but he's the most illiberal president of Argentina in a long time. You would, no doubt, claim the ex-dictator is Syria is socialist because he said so? You saw lots of evidence of spreading wealth around in that country?

Milei doesn't claim to be liberal. He claims to be Libertarian. While libertarianism has it's roots in the Classic Liberalism of the Enlightenment, it should not be confused with the progressivism people lable "liberal" today.

 

[BenStone]

Over my life I have seen the hysterics go from fear of an impending ice age (circa 1970), to global warming, to climate "change". The proponents of ideocracy are getting closer to the reality that climate changes, but no less hysterical. Apparently there is something appealing to post-Christians in the notion that their own sins are bringing about the end of the world.

 

[Ries]

Over my life I have seen the hysterics go from fear of an impending ice age (circa 1970), to global warming, to climate "change". The proponents of ideocracy are getting closer to the reality that climate changes, but no less hysterical. Apparently there is something appealing to post-Christians in the notion that their own sins are bringing about the end of the world.

Having never been "christian" in any way shape or sense, I am neither pre nor post. My ancestors from northern Finland actually believed a Blacksmith created the universe...
But I live part time on a farm in the USA, for 30 years, and part time in Buenos Aires, for 17 years. And in my time in both, I have seen definite and provable climate change.
Call it what you will, but it exists.
My son, who is in the wine business, has been telling me about the long term trend of french and italian and spanish wines increasing in alcohol content due to the climate, which is an observable and consistent trend. He is actually promoting argentine wines in the US these days, because as the climate changes, varieties that exist here are more relevant, as they can creep up in altitude to counteract increases in temperatures.
This is science, this is commerce, this is economic reality.
Nothing to do with "sins", as, being raised beatnik atheist in the sixties, sins are not a part of my worldview at all.
But planting seasons, annual rainfall, mean soil temperatures, and harvest dates all are.

 

[FrankPintor]

There isn't less ice at the poles. There is actually more but a lot of jobs depend on reporting otherwise. How many climate scientists voted for Trump? You will laugh and say "obviously zero LOL" But isn't that the problem? There is no divergence of opinion in the scientific community. They all agree and anyone who doesn't is banished and cancelled. Is this the true spirit of science?

There seems to be a lot of evidence regarding ice (sea ice) at the poles, much of it collected by NASA, which I won't offer, but here's a European study: "The sea ice in both the Arctic and Antarctic stands out this year as having ice extents among the top ten lowest on record. In the Arctic, the annual minimum ice extent has just been recorded as the ninth lowest since measurements began more than 40 years ago. In Antarctica, where winter is now over, the annual maximum extent is the seventh lowest on record."

From: https://osi-saf.eumetsat.int/community/stories/status-sea-ice-both-poles-september-2022, and here's another one: https://www.bas.ac.uk/data/our-data/publication/sea-ice-science-briefing/

The true spirit of science is peer-reviewing each other's publications. Scientists are more than happy to tear holes in each other's work.

But, as @Ries and I are both saying, you don't need to consider the poles, just focus on wine growing. I really don't think the vineyards are moving up the Andes just to satisfy a conspiracy theory.