What pandemic safety precautions are you taking?

[nikad]

At what point will you stop doing these things?

I guess when there is a vaccine and /or and effective treatment available.

 

[Alby]

I agree. I don't think even the most optimistic people think things ever go back to normal i.e., what they were. But, unfortunately, many do seem to believe that the day is coming where we will all just be able to throw off the mask and return to previous social activity. Most of them have, since Day 1, even been able to tell you the date: in 18 months. (Now, thanks to Trump and others, the have brought that date forward to January.)

In fact, in my country, it is even more extreme; there they have almost no virus, and most of people seem to cling to the belief that the vaccine will save them ever having to put a mask on to begin with.

Of course most people won't continue to deprive themselves of social contact. That has already ceased even here. It is why the virus will just go on and on doing it's work. Few people have the personal circumstances to be able to cut themselves off from in person social contact. I am one of those, but we are a tiny minority.

From my balcony I have twice seen an old couple farewell another old couple at the doorway of the building opposite in the last couple of weeks, with kisses on the cheek. It jolted me each time. But I understood. It is each couple's right and choice to invite, and to attend. Tonight an ambulance pulled up, and two medics came out in full PPE. They waited at the door; the woman who finally let them in was the wife in the couple I have previously observed hosting their friends.

 

[sergio]

I agree. I don't think even the most optimistic people think things ever go back to normal i.e., what they were. But, unfortunately, many do seem to believe that the day is coming where we will all just be able to throw off the mask and return to previous social activity. Most of them have, since Day 1, even been able to tell you the date: in 18 months. (Now, thanks to Trump and others, the have brought that date forward to January.)

In fact, in my country, it is even more extreme; there they have almost no virus, and most of people seem to cling to the belief that the vaccine will save them ever having to put a mask on to begin with.

Of course most people won't continue to deprive themselves of social contact. That has already ceased even here. It is why the virus will just go on and on doing it's work. Few people have the personal circumstances to be able to cut themselves off from in person social contact. I am one of those, but we are a tiny minority.

From my balcony I have twice seen an old couple farewell another old couple at the doorway of the building opposite in the last couple of weeks, with kisses on the cheek. It jolted me each time. But I understood. It is each couple's right and choice to invite, and to attend. Tonight an ambulance pulled up, and two medics came out in full PPE. They waited at the door; the woman who finally let them in was the wife in the couple I have previously observed hosting their friends.

What country are you from that is nearly virus free?

 

[Alby]

What country are you from that is nearly virus free?

Australia. The country I predict will be the only one in the world to have a pandemic after the pandemic has ended in the rest of the world. Because they will work out too late that the magical vaccine only vacinates one in two people, and at that point they either opt to become the next North Korea, or they finally open the border and let the virus in to a population with virtually zero natural immunity.

 

[Alby]

This could drag on for years.

And yes. In my view, it almost certainly will. We are not even at the end of the beginning. Most people in September 1939 thought the war would be over by Christmas. By Christmas they weren't even half way through the phoney war. The phoney war lasted until May 1940. And the actual war another five years after that.

 

[Alby]

We don't have to return to bar hopping or discos but we need to be able to see friends and relatives without anxiety.

So, the fundamental question is: if this does go on for years, how do we deal with the awful conundrum you point to?

Each one of us has to negotiate our own answer, in our own minds, and with our own friends and relatives. This is how I have done so:

• I imagine my friends and relatives becoming ill with coronavirus, possibly dying, or becoming long haulers, all because I decided I had to see them, not over the internet, but in person, and that on the day that I did, I was, unbeknownst to any of us, asymptomatic or presymptomatic.

I do that mental exercise every time I find myself wondering how long I will be able to keep this discipline up for. So far it's working.

(With the internet, we have infinitely better tools to manage this sacrifice than any previous generation who faced a plague. We are lucky.)

The other exercise I do, is to think back to what I was doing 12 months ago, two years ago, three years ago, etc. In every case, it seems like almost yesterday. That helps me remember that even if this goes on for another two years, or three years (or, like the war that was suppposed to be over by Christmas, six years), those years will pass quicker than we currently can imagine (more quickly than we should even want them to), and, soon enough, coronavirus will be barely a memory, and social relationships will one again be conducted in-person.

 

[sergio]

So, the fundamental question is: if this does go on for years, how do we deal with the awful conundrum you point to?

Each one of us has to negotiate our own answer, in our own minds, and with our own friends and relatives. This is how I have done so:

• I imagine my friends and relatives becoming ill with coronavirus, possibly dying, or becoming long haulers, all because I decided I had to see them, not over the internet, but in person, and that on the day that I did, I was, unbeknownst to any of us, asymptomatic or presymptomatic.

I do that mental exercise every time I find myself wondering how long I will be able to keep this discipline up for. So far it's working.

(With the internet, we have infinitely better tools to manage this sacrifice than any previous generation who faced a plague. We are lucky.)

The other exercise I do, is to think back to what I was doing 12 months ago, two years ago, three years ago, etc. In every case, it seems like almost yesterday. That helps me remember that even if this goes on for another two years, or three years (or, like the war that was suppposed to be over by Christmas, six years), those years will pass quicker than we currently can imagine (more quickly than we should even want them to), and, soon enough, coronavirus will be barely a memory, and social relationships will one again be conducted in-person.

If reasonable protocols are observed, why is it unsafe to visit friends and relatives? Small groups, perhaps just one or two guests, keeping a distance of six feet, strict hygiene observed (removal of shoes, sanitizing bathrooms etc). And why can't cafes and restaurants open if they observe social distancing and other protocols? It seems to me that the problem is when large groups gather. Bars and discos cannot reopen; concerts, performing arts may be able to if the audience is limited to 25% and socially distanced. When it comes to intercity travel the government needs to improve train service and restore the sleeping cars that have been mothballed. The safest way to travel is in a compartment on a train. It seems to me that the situation could be made a lot more tolerable if everyone were to make adjustments and observe common sense.

 

[semigoodlookin]

I think most on this forum may be in a unique bubble of conformity and doing an excellent job sticking to the letter of the rules.

However, I don't know a single person, family, friend, acquaintance who has not had a social gathering during this lockdown. I have two teenagers and I know from what they tell me their friends are basically acting like they normally would. I am being told this by my daughter everytime she asks why she cannot see her boyfriend... which is a lot. Gatherings in parks, seeing girlfriends/boyfriends, in each others houses, sleepovers, the lot. They are even positng this stuff to Instagram to show just how much of a shit they give. I see this myself when I head to the park for a run and see people on blankets enjoying their afternoon mate and social gathering as they normally would, kids running around, even people playing football. I am also seeing an increasing amount of people without a mask. Speaking of running, the times given by the government were never observed and people are going whenever they want.

I also have some access to some rough areas of the province through friends and extended family. I know from first-hand experience all bets off in villas and similar low income neighbourhoods. It's like any other day and you can 100% forget about social distancing and half the protocols people are naming in this thread. You think if guy A wants to go an have beer with guy B, C, D, E, and F he won't?

If the police are not doing anything, then it comes down to the individual. It seems 75% of people don't give a shit about the risks. I admit, I fall somewhere in the middle, between rolling my eyes at some actions in this thread (I understand I am outside the age group of many here) and shocked by people's willingness to break the rules of the lockdown. However, I think it's too late, people are slowly but surely clicking back into their normal lives in terms of family and friends and I don't think there is any going back.

Of course, this means the virus is very much here to stay and likely to continue spreading, but it looks like most are at the hey ho stage.

 

[Alby]

If reasonable protocols are observed, why is it unsafe to visit friends and relatives? Small groups, perhaps just one or two guests, keeping a distance of six feet, strict hygiene observed (removal of shoes, sanitizing bathrooms etc).

Because, unfortunately, life, and people, are much messier than that. The example of the two older couples who meet and, despite being in the highest risk group, fail to observe the most basic of the protocols--because their patience and self discipline has run out just five months into a pandemic that you and I agree could go on for years--is evidence of that. People can visit friends and relatives, and will do so anyway. Some will agree on protocols. I doubt many will be able to maintain them as long as is going to be necessary, as my neighbors demonstrate. Some will pay a price. My neighbors and their friends may already be doing so.

I agree that restaurants should be able to open with protocols and young people willing to take the risk should have the right to take that risk. Restaurants and cafés are in many cases owned, staffed, and patronized by people under the age of 40. My view is that there are two worlds now: one for young people and one for older people. If older people choose to try and cross over into the young people's world and take the same risks, that's up to them. I, personally, choose not to. The young people are the most disadvantaged by this disaster yet the least directly threatened by the virus. They ought to be given the right to take their chances to be economically active. I applaud them. It is they who will get us closer to herd immunity long before the magical vaccine.

There is no greater fan of public transport than me. But, personally, I will avoid for the forseeable future. I don't know where governments are keeping all their decomissioned sleeper carriages. If they still exist, it would be a great job creation project. But when spring comes, I am buying a bicycle.

 

[Alby]

It seems to me that the situation could be made a lot more tolerable if everyone were to make adjustments and observe common sense.

I'm not sure the situation is all that intolerable. Different, yes. Challenging, yes. Less fun than before, yes.

In the grand scheme of human suffering, at least in the way most of us who follow this website experience the pandemic, it barely rates.