When will the stupid liberals learn...

[jaredwb]

BTW, since you admire the American system SO MUCH isn't it ironic that the US Government has to borrow 2 billion $$ a day from a system it was ready to nuke (USSR) years ago? If it wasn't for money from China (political system very close to the USSR - Communism, way beyond your Bete Noire "Socialism") So, we are using the communist system to keep us above water, how Ironic. See, gotta go for "Deeper Thinking" and not just slide across the surface of things (be superficial IOW). Check out these YouTubes (look, listen, learn) -
[/quote]

And I don't recall ever saying that I support our dependency on China or the amount of debt they hold...that's ONE of the reasons the "crazy right" is screaming an yelling about the current economic policies. And you said Communism, don't you lefties call it "state run capitalism"??

Of course, what you don't see (cause you don't go to China) is there is NO capitalism what-so-ever. All companies must answer to the government. 10 of the top 10 (in size) companies in China are all government owned.
And setting up a new business? Forget it without a Gov sponsor (I know from EXPERIENCE).

And, on a side note, China STILL depends on PRIVATE U.S. companies to assist in their growth and job creation.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Sweden is a Capitalist country! (according to the U.S. State Dept), "Sweden has used a combination of high-tech capitalism and a comprehensive system of welfare benefits to achieve one of the highest standards of living in the world. Today, privately owned companies account for nearly 90% of industrial output."

You are cherry-picking definitions. Denmark, Sweden, and Norway all have roughly the same economic system. Of the three, Norway probably has the most social welfare provisions (since they have the oil money to fund their system with and unlike predatory systems like those of the USA and Nigeria, they believe in spreading it around).

The RELAXATION of Govt controlled policies have increased private investment and growth.

What has that to do with overall social welfare for the population at large? Probably the same thing was being said by the US government about Russia in the '90s, when a bunch of kleptocrats took over the country.

LESS GOVERNMENT IS GOOD, MORE IS BAD!

This is coming from the Tea Party School of Political Thought at Ayn Rand University. In this cloud-cuckoo world them thar evil and envious liberals, trying to keep down sexy heroes like Hank Rearden who, by the sweat of their brow invent miraculous new steel processes, create a huge parasitical state that rewards idlers and ne'er-do-wells. It ignores the reality that the modern state and modern capitalism co-evolved. If you study US history, the railroad barons insisted on a stronger state to help regulate the railroads in the late 19th century, which were going bankrupt because of unfettered competition. The modern state underwrites research (internet, pharma, defence applications with civilian applications); it provides contracts to the large firms (General Electric, GM, GE, Bechtel, etc.). It provides taxpayer-funded subsidies to large companies. It bails out Wall Street. Its military-industrial complex keeps thousands of businesses in the black. Its laws -- including those for property and intellectual rights -- provide the environment in which business can take place worldwide (often backed by armed force).

Modern capitalism needs the state, can't do without it. But the Tea Partiers -- living in a never-never land of small government, and businesses somehow flourishing without the "burden" of onerous state intervention -- imagine it can be made smaller. We are no more going back to that early 19th century period than we are going back to the Bronze Age or Stone Age.

The problem with the Tea Partiers is they haven't theorised the state, so like the sheep in Orwell's Animal Farm who have learnt to chant "Four legs good, two legs bad," they go on mindlessly about "small gub'mint."

 

[jaredwb]

You are cherry-picking definitions. Denmark, Sweden, and Norway all have roughly the same economic system. Of the three, Norway probably has the most social welfare provisions (since they have the oil money to fund their system with and unlike predatory systems like those of the USA and Nigeria, they believe in spreading it around).

What has that to do with overall social welfare for the population at large? Probably the same thing was being said by the US government about Russia in the '90s, when a bunch of kleptocrats took over the country.

This is coming from the Tea Party School of Political Thought at Ayn Rand University. In this cloud-cuckoo world them thar evil and envious liberals, trying to keep down sexy heroes like Hank Rearden who, by the sweat of their brow invent miraculous new steel processes, create a huge parasitical state that rewards idlers and ne'er-do-wells. It ignores the reality that the modern state and modern capitalism co-evolved. If you study US history, the railroad barons insisted on a stronger state to help regulate the railroads in the late 19th century, which were going bankrupt because of unfettered competition. The modern state underwrites research (internet, pharma, defence applications with civilian applications); it provides contracts to the large firms (General Electric, GM, GE, Bechtel, etc.). It provides taxpayer-funded subsidies to large companies. It bails out Wall Street. Its military-industrial complex keeps thousands of businesses in the black. Its laws -- including those for property and intellectual rights -- provide the environment in which business can take place worldwide (often backed by armed force).

Modern capitalism needs the state, can't do without it. But the Tea Partiers -- living in a never-never land of small government, and businesses somehow flourishing without the "burden" of onerous state intervention -- imagine it can be made smaller. We are no more going back to that early 19th century period than we are going back to the Bronze Age or Stone Age.

The problem with the Tea Partiers is they haven't theorised the state, so like the sheep in Orwell's Animal Farm who have learnt to chant "Four legs good, two legs bad," they go on mindlessly about "small gub'mint."

I was talking about Denmark, someone else brought up Sweden. I don't know if they are similar. I haven't been there. But, I do know from today's research that Denmark v Sweden is not a valid comparison of "similiar economic systems".

Ok, I don't totally disagree with you here...again, I have said SMALLER Government, not no Government. No Government would be the Anarchists on the FAR left.

I'm sure you are not saying that people can't create without the help of the Gov? I could name a vast number of individuals who would disagree.

Wow, back to the railroads. Might want to check your history again to see the outcome of the Govt Land Grants given to Union Pacific and Central Pacific and all the problems it caused and the amount of Govt laws passed because of it. Not to mention the monopolies it created in steel, iron and coal. I grew up about 30 miles from Promontory Point...I know all about the railroads and their history. Even have a rail spike from the 1800's.

Sorry for the short answer, I had to find my elitist cap since I di'nt nrstan wah u rote sinc we tea partiers r stoopid.

 

[Dudester]

Again with the personal attacks, is that all you got...??

Nope, I haven't been to Denmark or Sweden. I've lived and worked (more than 2 years) in Paris, NYC, Buenos Aires, and Singapore (while traveling extensively to China and SEA) so I would guess I have "seen" more than you.

Oppps, bad choice on the numbers (watch that coffee intake). Maybe add a zero to your list (of 8?) and you'll have it about right. Here's my list (I NEVER EVER do this but just this once for my HYPER pal......

EUROPE - been everywhere - North (Scandinavia)/South/East (old "Eastern Europe")/West/Central - many times except never in Romania, Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania. Go to GREECE/ITALY/SPAIN/PORTUGAL/ (FRANCE of course with an Apartment in Paris) all the time

AFRICA - this is my weakest continent. Been to MOROCCO (many times), TUNISIA, EGYPT (many times), SEYCHELLES, KENYA, TANZANIA, ZANZIBAR, SOUTH AFRICA, NAMIBIA. Still must visit Victoria Falls !!!

MIDDLE EAST/CENTRAL ASIA - Been to - TURKEY, CYPRUS, SYRIA, JORDAN, ISRAEL, PALESTINE, UAE (Dubai), INDIA, SRI LANKA, MALDIVES, NEPAL

S.E. ASIA - everywhere EXCEPT (have not been to but plan to go to the last 3, not Burma) - BURMA, LAOS, CAMBODIA, VIETNAM.

EAST ASIA/SOUTH PACIFIC - been to - CHINA (x3, first time was 1984), TAIWAN, JAPAN (Many Times), SOUTH KOREA, (all of) AUSTRALIA (Many Times), NEW CALEDONIA, NEW ZEALAND, TAHITI (3 islands)

SOUTH AMERICA - EVERYWHERE but COLUMBIA, BOLIVIA, and the 3 little countries next to Venezuela.

CARIBBEAN/CENTAL & NORTH AMERICA - about 10 or 12 islands - JAMAICA, CAYMANS, COZUMEL, HAITI, ARUBA, BARBADOS, CURACAO, PUERTO RICO, VIRGINS, BAHAMAS, a few more. CENTRAL - PANAMA, COSTA RICA, BELIZE, MEXICO. North, all over the USA and the Top 4 Major CANADIAN CITIES

God, that was HARD EFFING WORK, I've been traveling since I turned 17 - it's gonna take you awhile to catch up I think.......Never ASSUME ANYTHING my man....

BACK TO THE COMMENTS...

Sweden is a Capitalist country!

Oh yeah, you betcha !!.... and the moon is a planet BBW explained that one very well.

The RELAXATION of Govt controlled policies have increased private investment and growth.

SO, ONCE AGAIN, LET'S SAY IT TOGETHER....

Getting all your info from a quick "Google" doesn't work very well. Living in computer land isn't very realistic. You have a guitar around? We cn make a song out of this !!!!

Come on, throw me another country...this is fun.
SIAM, FORMOSA, MYANMAR, ATLANTIS, DISNEYLAND, you're just gonna google, I'm taking a break, I have a ton of work to do.....

 

[jaredwb]

Again with the personal attacks, is that all you got...??

Nope, I haven't been to Denmark or Sweden. I've lived and worked (more than 2 years) in Paris, NYC, Buenos Aires, and Singapore (while traveling extensively to China and SEA) so I would guess I have "seen" more than you.

Oppps, bad choice on the numbers (watch that coffee intake). Maybe add a zero to your list (of 8?) and you'll have it about right. Here's my list (I NEVER EVER do this but just this once for my HYPER pal......

EUROPE - been everywhere - North (Scandinavia)/South/East (old "Eastern Europe")/West/Central - many times except never in Romania, Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania. Go to GREECE/ITALY/SPAIN/PORTUGAL/ (FRANCE of course with an Apartment in Paris) all the time

AFRICA - this is my weakest continent. Been to MOROCCO (many times), TUNISIA, EGYPT (many times), SEYCHELLES, KENYA, TANZANIA, ZANZIBAR, SOUTH AFRICA, NAMIBIA. Still must visit Victoria Falls !!!

MIDDLE EAST/CENTRAL ASIA - Been to - TURKEY, CYPRUS, SYRIA, JORDAN, ISRAEL, PALESTINE, UAE (Dubai), INDIA, SRI LANKA, MALDIVES, NEPAL

S.E. ASIA - everywhere EXCEPT (have not been to but plan to go to the last 3, not Burma) - BURMA, LAOS, CAMBODIA, VIETNAM.

EAST ASIA/SOUTH PACIFIC - been to - CHINA (x3, first time was 1984), TAIWAN, JAPAN (Many Times), SOUTH KOREA, (all of) AUSTRALIA (Many Times), NEW CALEDONIA, NEW ZEALAND, TAHITI (3 islands)

SOUTH AMERICA - EVERYWHERE but COLUMBIA, BOLIVIA, and the 3 little countries next to Venezuela.

CARIBBEAN/CENTAL & NORTH AMERICA - about 10 or 12 islands - JAMAICA, CAYMANS, COZUMEL, HAITI, ARUBA, BARBADOS, CURACAO, PUERTO RICO, VIRGINS, BAHAMAS, a few more. CENTRAL - PANAMA, COSTA RICA, BELIZE, MEXICO. North, all over the USA and the Top 4 Major CANADIAN CITIES

God, that was HARD EFFING WORK, I've been traveling since I turned 17 - it's gonna take you awhile to catch up I think.......Never ASSUME ANYTHING my man....

BACK TO THE COMMENTS...

Sweden is a Capitalist country!

Oh yeah, you betcha !!.... and the moon is a planet BBW explained that one very well.

The RELAXATION of Govt controlled policies have increased private investment and growth.

SO, ONCE AGAIN, LET'S SAY IT TOGETHER....

Getting all your info from a quick "Google" doesn't work very well. Living in computer land isn't very realistic. You have a guitar around? We cn make a song out of this !!!!

Come on, throw me another country...this is fun.
SIAM, FORMOSA, MYANMAR, ATLANTIS, DISNEYLAND, you're just gonna google, I'm taking a break, I have a ton of work to do.....

But wait, weren't YOU "assuming" that I am stupid and haven't traveled? Oh wait, I forget that you lefties don't give a crap about honesty, fairness, or hypocrisy.

And I was pointing out where I have LIVED. Not where I have traveled....that list is a lot bigger (and I am much younger than you)

So, traveling since you were 17...was that on daddies dime or maybe the govt's of the countries you were traveling in. Oh sorry, don't want to "assume" that. I am sure you were a 17 year old millionaire that created and sold a company for millions with help of the Government...sound about right?

Sweden: READ ABOUT IT!! PROVE ME WRONG OR SHUT UP!! THE ECONOMIC SYSTEM (not the Gov) IS CAPITALISM!!

You complain to me about my info, research, and intelligence and yet don't do anything to prove otherwise. Still, it's the same ol same ol...anyone that doesn't agree with the left is stupid, misinformed and ignorant.

Now, I'm going back to do some real work (which happens to involve creating and finding jobs for other people, go figure).

 

[Dudester]

Wow, would you settle down amigo !!! Get your B/P checked - 120/80 is normal. No, I don't think you're stupid, you just don't get it, see it from the correct and accurate POV. Here's the deal -

The US Government is OWNED and RUN by BIG BUSINESS and the Military Industrial Complex. SOMEONE needs to control BIG BUSINESS and the Military, only the Government can do it so that is why we need an HONEST GOVERNMENT. Right now it's TOTALLY CORRUPT and BOUGHT OFF.

The ANSWER FOR ME is to get the F out of the USA but I have a very important (to me and my girl friend/business partner) business that keeps me/us here. So personally, I can only be gone part time for now. This country (USA) is now SO f-ked up that it makes me sick. Democrats are not the answer, Repubs are not the answer (they are ALL BOUGHT OFF - BOTH PARTIES !!!). Teas are NOT THE ANSWER. Only a revolution by a big group of smart people (but that's not possible in the USA - not enough smart people who really know what's going on) can fix things. The only other solution is to leave. That's the bottom line, Can't get anymore simple than that - Dudester

 

[jaredwb]

Wow, would you settle down amigo !!! Get your B/P checked - 120/80 is normal. No, I don't think you're stupid, you just don't get it, see it from the correct and accurate POV. Here's the deal -

The US Government is OWNED and RUN by BIG BUSINESS and the Military Industrial Complex. SOMEONE needs to control BIG BUSINESS and the Military, only the Government can do it so that is why we need an HONEST GOVERNMENT. Right now it's TOTALLY CORRUPT and BOUGHT OFF.

The ANSWER FOR ME is to get the F out of the USA but I have a very important (to me and my girl friend/business partner) business that keeps me/us here. So personally, I can only be gone part time for now. This country (USA) is now SO f-ked up that it makes me sick. Democrats are not the answer, Repubs are not the answer (they are ALL BOUGHT OFF - BOTH PARTIES !!!). Teas are NOT THE ANSWER. Only a revolution by a big group of smart people (but that's not possible in the USA - not enough smart people who really know what's going on) can fix things. The only other solution is to leave. That's the bottom line, Can't get anymore simple than that - Dudester

Well, brushing the B/P comment aside...I AGREE WITH YOU 100%! We both agree the U.S. is majorly F'ed up and we both left...maybe we aren't so different

 

[bigbadwolf]

The US Government is OWNED and RUN by BIG BUSINESS and the Military Industrial Complex. SOMEONE needs to control BIG BUSINESS and the Military, only the Government can do it so that is why we need an HONEST GOVERNMENT. Right now it's TOTALLY CORRUPT and BOUGHT OFF.

It's not some recent phenomenon. If you glance at books like Ferguson's The Golden Rule and Selfa's The Democrats: A Critical History, you find it's always been true in the US, with the occassional bone thrown to organised labor to stave off confrontation (e.g., Roosevelt's New Deal). Big business also has a major say in the European states. The difference is that other groups -- e.g., labor -- also have a say in those states. The state is contested territory there. In the USA, the state is contested territory only in the sense that different investor blocs are vying for control of the state (see Ferguson's book for a scholarly analysis).

Just as the US made a bogeyman of the USSR to further its own imperial agenda, so too are Tea Partiers making a bogeyman out of limp-wristed impotent metrosexual liberals. Liberals are limp-wristed apologists for the status quo; or as I like to say, lipstick on the pig of US imperialism and militarism. It's risible to think these weak sisters are responsible for the expenditures of the US superstate. The vast expenditures of the US superstate -- in areas such as "defence" -- have to do with the requirements and imperatives of US monopoly capital. This is not the world of Ayn Rand. Take away the US superstate and American monopoly capital will promptly collapse. Successful capitalism in the modern era -- US, German, Japanese, Chinese -- has depended crucially on a strong state. But impossible to explain this to the mentally challenged Tea Partiers, the slavish followers of Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck. Excuse me for a moment -- my laughter is affecting my typing.

 

[Dudester]

Gotta agree with THE WOLF, he knows his stuff (much better read than me) - Yeah, tea party, off the charts (of sanity)....... Dudester