Who are buying houses?

[Ries]

I have never met an argentine who had a mortgage. I know some architects who have gotten short bridge loans to fix up and then sell a building- 1 or 2 years. But the average person pays cash.
I have found that the quality apartments sell very close to asking, and pretty quickly.
I have seen several apartments in barrio norte lately sell within a month if priced right- and that doesnt mean they are cheap. a friend was interested in one last fall, which sold right away for right around $200k.
There is an upper middle class here, which does buy and sell homes. The economy here contains a fair amount of people with money, and the really nice older places sell. But like everything else in argentina, the real estate market has its own rules, and takes a while to figure out.
A lot of my argentine friends did well with the inflation of the last 15 to 20 years- I know people who had tiny places they bought for $20 k or so, but after 10 or 15 years, they appreciated enough to flip them and move up market. I know when we bought our place, in 2007, there were casa chorizos for sale in Palermo Hollywood for $150k, and those are all upwards of $500k now.

 

[antipodean]

can you elaborate a bit more on this? is this done thru a bank? Is this "en poso""

You do it directly with the developers, no banks involved. If you see a new project advertised that looks interesting contact the developer and ask them about what financing they are offering, and of course the current state of the project and timeline (For example, you may feel more comfortable with a project once work on site has actually began since everything you pay before it is delivered, plus the ongoing liability, is essentially at risk if they don’t have the stuff together).

 

[Girino]

I am eyeing some properties. There are plain old places that are priced the same or more than new properties with amenities. From an investment point of view, it makes no sense.

There is an old nice apartment in a great location that has been on the market for years with a price tag that ranged from over 230k in 2019 to 160k in 2022. After pressing the real estate agent, we found out that besides needing substantial renovation works, the HOA expenses are about 200 USD/month because a full time encargado they can't get rid of. The hallways are impeccable, but there is no added value in that vs. a new building with amenities and likely less monthly expenses.

Some considerations applied abroad when buying real estate are not really applicable here, such as contingencies (do not exist here), cash vs. financing (everybody buys cash), properties sitting longer on the market or listed with multiple agents are a good fit for aggressive offers (no way to put pressure on some sellers, it seems they just keep their property on sale "just in case" and not because they want actually sell it).

 

[Ries]

Part of deciding whether or not to buy an apartment here is definitely researching the consorcio, and the administrator, the encargado situation, and the expensas. If you dont know what all these things are, you need to learn before signing anything.
Are there new electric meters, and a recent electrical service? What about the gas- if its ancient, its gonna break, and sometimes that means six months of no hot water or heat.

Smaller buildings are usually better and easier to deal with than big ones. If you have 50 or 200 apartments, the administration is always a quilombo, and you just have to accept whatever they tell you.
With 5, or 7 apartments, you have a chance of actually understanding and influencing what goes on.
And age and condition of the building definitely affects price. There are thousands of properties for sale- you cant be afraid to walk away from signs of trouble before purchasing.

The really good apartments have 100 year old buildings, with wonderful thick walls, big windows, wood and tile floors, AND have had the kitchens and baths redone in the last five years, and new fria/calors. (air conditioners)
Otherwise, you have to factor in the cost of remodelling the kitchen and baths. Easy 10 grand US each. And usually a couple of new airconditioners, at a minimum of $1000usd each.
Check the electrical service. Do you know the difference between a fuse and a circuit breaker? Does it have three prong outlets, or the ancient double round ones? Check for Ground. Again, if you don know how, you have to hire somebody who does, and there are not housing inspection services here like in some other countries.
When I buy used cars in the US, I always just assume that part of the price will be new tires, new battery, and likely a timing belt.
Its the same here with kitchens and baths- when people sell, they have usually foregone repairs or maintenance for years.
There are good deals out there, and really good apartments, but it takes more education to buy well here than in many other places.
Location is important, but its far from the only thing.

 

[Ceviche]

I have a question about role of real estate agents dealing with high end properties.

I am wanting to buy a expensive property en CABA. However, the real estate agents ( a famous one) is giving all sort of road blocks to me. Can experienced members here guide me on how to tackle them, please?

Some of my issues with them which I am not sure, one how to resolve or maybe I could be totally wrong? Please guide?

1. They ( real estate agent) will not let me meet/talk/ see/ do video call with owner till day of signing the escritura. Is that how it works? ( They fear, they will get sidelined and lose their commision)

2. They are asking for a 4% commision just for the fact that they have the property and shown me once. Its a lot of money for an expensive property. What is the law of the city for this? And what services are they expected to provide to pocket 4% commission!!!!

3, They want a fees to reveal property papers to my chosen escribano. They say - it can be refunded if I have genuine reasons not to buy after sighting the papers. What is the CABA law for this?

4. I had seen the property in glorious fotos fully furnished and decorated. when I went to see the property - at least 50% of it had been removed. I still loved it. Thereafter, I asked the real estate agent - I want to buy the property as it is ( decorated) . he says its impossible. The property will be stripped naked and I would only get the walls. I said, can you allow me to speak to owner to discuss this. he said - No. Is there a way around this?

5. I am looking to buy and hold for life time. They have agreed to my proposal to lower the price in escritura by 40% from what I would actually pay. Any cons to that ( especially as I am not planning to flip or resell).

6. What is the correct percentage fees for escribano on present day. Is it based on paid price or the price as input in escritura?

7. Since its an extremely expensive property, I asked him I am ready to pay 33% immediately to show interest but I request 6 months to pay rest ( as I need to sell some property in another country to raise funds) . He laughed at me as if I was retarded. Then he ( real estate agent) declined without even consulting the owner.

8. How does one transfer cash on very high end deals like this?

9. Finally, he is not ready to lower the price even by 1 usd...from its listed price. I admist the property is damn good. I imagined we are in a bearsh market but it does not seem so.

--

Overall, I am not very happy dealing with such snarky agents. However, i really like the property very much. henceforth, my dilemma.

Can anyone advise me please on my 9 doubts.

 

[RinoG]

1- that's my experience, too
2- that's up to 4%, and usually most agents go for the full 4%. Mine wrote 3%, then "forgot" and asked for 4%, but I held to 3%.
3- they want a refuerzo to show commitment. If your escribano finds anything wrong with the papers, you can get your refuerzo back and call it off.
4- you buy the naked property except if you agree to buy it furnished. Some sellers advertise their property with the option to buy it furnished for. a higher price. Anyway, in no country you buy a property with all the decors and furnitures by default. Staging is just to show the property's potential, it is not part of the deal.
5- when you resell, capital gain tax. It doesn't seem to concern you, though. It is common to write a much lower number here to keep sales tax low.
6- it depends. They usually want it calculated on the actual price and not on what is written in the deed. They are not stupid.
7- yes, you are not expected to make your own payment terms. Regardless, it seems that this real estate agent is a bit disrespectful. Even if you are a foreigner and there are cultural differences in conducting business, if he has expensive properties on his portfolio he should be the one making the effort, not the wealthy foreigner. Perhaps you should get your own agent and let him deal with the seller's agent (it is not common here, but maybe for an expensive property it is worth it)
8- we have discussed this above. You hire a service that for a fee (5 to 8%) will receive a wire from you and they will magically make appear stacks of USD bills here for your cash transactions. Caveat: the money will be handed to you after 2 (sleepless) days.
9- This is Argentina. They are stubborn and convinced their crap is worth gold. Take it or leave it.

 

[El manolo]

1- that's my experience, too
2- that's up to 4%, and usually most agents go for the full 4%. Mine wrote 3%, then "forgot" and asked for 4%, but I held to 3%.
3- they want a refuerzo to show commitment. If your escribano finds anything wrong with the papers, you can get your refuerzo back and call it off.
4- you buy the naked property except if you agree to buy it furnished. Some sellers advertise their property with the option to buy it furnished for. a higher price. Anyway, in no country you buy a property with all the decors and furnitures by default. Staging is just to show the property's potential, it is not part of the deal.
5- when you resell, capital gain tax. It doesn't seem to concern you, though. It is common to write a much lower number here to keep sales tax low.
6- it depends. They usually want it calculated on the actual price and not on what is written in the deed. They are not stupid.
7- yes, you are not expected to make your own payment terms. Regardless, it seems that this real estate agent is a bit disrespectful. Even if you are a foreigner and there are cultural differences in conducting business, if he has expensive properties on his portfolio he should be the one making the effort, not the wealthy foreigner. Perhaps you should get your own agent and let him deal with the seller's agent (it is not common here, but maybe for an expensive property it is worth it)
8- we have discussed this above. You hire a service that for a fee (5 to 8%) will receive a wire from you and they will magically make appear stacks of USD bills here for your cash transactions. Caveat: the money will be handed to you after 2 (sleepless) days.
9- This is Argentina. They are stubborn and convinced their crap is worth gold. Take it or leave it.

The best deal I've got is 2.5% of comission but it was because I was buying 2 properties from the same Real Estate agent, so 5% total. But 3% and 4% is the norm.

Getting USD in Argentina has always been a quilambo. I bring 9900 USD cash each time I travel abraod.

From experience, I can say price is always negotiable in Argentina. You may look for long the property has been in the market. The agent may see that you are "too" interested.

Keep in mind, Argentina is big, plenty of beautiful houses/apartments. Be wiling to look for other deals. I can assure you, you will see better and more beautiful apartments than what you are buying.

 

[Macanudo]

I asked him I am ready to pay 33% immediately to show interest but I request 6 months to pay rest ( as I need to sell some property in another country to raise funds) .

Are you willing to forfeit this deposit if you can not come up with the rest of the money in 6 months? If not, that's probably why he laughed.

 

[Ries]

I would try to find a different realtor.

 

[PaulBee]

s

So I'm looking on zonaprop at houses, something with 3 bedrooms and a little backyard space where we can raise two boys. The prices of the listings are the same if not more than homes listed in Miami. Is that right? And if so, who are buying these houses?

From what I gather, very few people here in CABA are making above 200 to 300k pesos a month, so how does one buy a US$300-400k house? I'm having trouble doing the math.

Are the prices listed in dollars but then you actually pay in pesos at the official rate with a 0 percent mortgage? I don't understand how the average family buys a house in or around the city.

Or maybe zonaprop is not representative of the real market?

Some other cities have similar situations. In Toronto, Canada, typical mortgage payments for a stand alone house would exceed the total income of a typical household. The market is slow, prices are a bit soft, but the real estate market continues to function.