Wine in Chinos

[florence]

It is my experience that many of the items in the Chino supermercados are substandard. Some are out of date, or nearly so. Others have been poorly stored and handled and others are counterfeit. After many bad experiences with supposedly brand-name wines bought at Chinos, we now only buy wine from a wine store or one of the major grocery chains, Coto, Disco, etc.

 

[sergio]

It is my experience that many of the items in the Chino supermercados are substandard. Some are out of date, or nearly so. Others have been poorly stored and handled and others are counterfeit. After many bad experiences with supposedly brand-name wines bought at Chinos, we now only buy wine from a wine store or one of the major grocery chains, Coto, Disco, etc.

Wine is counterfeit? They manufacture look alike bottles and fill them with some liquid they fabricate in a back room somewhere? The tissue I paid 45 pesos for vs 65 in the supermarket is imitation and sub standard? Really? And the tales of turning off electricity all night are also true?

 

[steveinbsas]

Wine is counterfeit? They manufacture look alike bottles and fill them with some liquid they fabricate in a back room somewhere?

Although I never even thought about it before reading this post, I don't think that's how it would be done.

They could buy relatively cheap wine buy the case (if not the truckload), soak off the original labels and replace them with "counterfeit" labels from a more expensive wine.

I'm guessing it would be just about as easy to print counterfeit labels for a bottle of wine wine as it is to print "sobres" for counterfeit DVD's.

PS: They would also want to be sure to check the corks to be sure they're not printed with the name of the winery, unless they were changing the labels on a cheaper vintage to a more expensive one from the same winery.

 

[sergio]

Wine bottles are not all the same. Do you really think that they manufacture bottles to match each brand? People often buy the same wine over and over and will recognize the bottle.

 

[steveinbsas]

Wine bottles are not all the same.

Agreeds. One of the most obvious differences is the bottom of the bottle. Some are flat and some are concave.

Do you really think that they manufacture bottles to match each brand?

I didn't even suggest that and, although there might be some exceptions. Do wineries manufacture their own bottles?

If many (if not most) wineries buy bottles wholesale from a manufacturer, I imagine many wineries would use the same bottles for wines that might vary greatly in quality and price.

People often buy the same wine over and over and will recognize the bottle.

And, as I indicated in my previous post, that "problem"might be avoided if the counterfeiter buys a cheaper vintage of the same wine (Malbec, e.g.) from the same winery and changes the label to a more expensive vintage.

If they try that, however, people who often buy the same wine over and over are (IMO) more likely to recognize a difference in the taste of the wine itself.

PS: I just checked to see if there was any difference in wine bottles from three different wineries and, except for the labels, they were all exactly the same, but I also realize there are a number of styles of bottles that are used (even) by the same winery. It's something the counterfeiters would have to be aware of and be careful to avoid making an obvious mistake.

 

[wineguy999]

Wine bottles are not all the same. Do you really think that they manufacture bottles to match each brand? People often buy the same wine over and over and will recognize the bottle.

Actually the vast majority of wine in the world is packaged in one of only six bottles, three variations of claret and three variations of Burgundy. There may be subtle (or drastic) differences in the color of the glass, but they are basically pretty limited. In fact, it is not uncommon at all for a producer to use two different styles for the same bottling, as they sometimes have bottles left over from previous vintages and have changed styles due to economics or a simple change in preference. This photo is a perfect illustration - neither bottle is counterfeit, but it's the same wine from the same same vintage, one in a straight claret and the other in the wide-shouldered claret.

 

[wineguy999]

Agreeds. One of the most obvious differences is the bottom of the bottle. Some are flat and some are concave.



I didn't even suggest that and, although there might be some exceptions. Do wineries manufacture their own bottles?

If many (if not most) wineries buy bottles wholesale from a manufacturer, I imagine many wineries would use the same bottles for wines that might vary greatly in quality and price.



And, as I indicated in my previous post, that "problem"might be avoided if the counterfeiter buys a cheaper vintage of the same wine (Malbec, e.g.) from the same winery and changes the label to a more expensive vintage.

If they try that, however, people who often buy the same wine over and over are (IMO) more likely to recognize a difference in the taste of the wine itself.

PS: I just checked to see if there was any difference in wine bottles from three different wineries and, except for the labels, they were all exactly the same, but I also realize there are a number of styles of bottles that are used (even) by the same winery. It's something the counterfeiters would have to be aware of and be careful to avoid making an obvious mistake.

You are correct about the ease of changing a label on a cheaper wine. This technique has been used before, as has the bottling and recorking of a cheaper wine into an empty bottle, on a much smaller scale, of course. See: Rudy Kurniawan.

And you are correct about the idea of buying cheaper wine in bulk and bottling it with counterfeit labels from a more prestigious producer.

Bottles are sold by bottle producers, and there is no control, except where a design has been custom produced and trademarked - only a few come to mind, but even those are typically based on old designs. For those educated in the wine supply industry, it's a pretty easy matter to find out where a winery buys their glass (look on the bottom rim for codes, trademarks, etc), call the company and say, "I want the same bottles for my wine that Caymus uses for their Cabernet." Stamps on corks - no problem...they sell those machines too.

The trick in all this is that it's hard to be completely convincing and still make a worthwhile profit margin. But in a world where a huge number of consumers will buy a wine only because there's a cute picture of a llama/puppy/kangaroo/horse/chicken on the label....

 

[Kookaburra]

Some chinos have a wider range and higher turnover of wines than others but they all seem better value than supermarkets. For something better, a wine store for sure.

What was it that made you suspect that some wine was fake rather than not stored properly? Was it the labeling or the seal? I'm curious.

 

[florence]

I don't know if it is fake, or simply that the wine was mishandled, i.e.perhaps left in hot warehouses for long periods of time, so the wholesalers unload it at discount prices. Whether it is fake, or spoiled, I don't want to buy or drink it. What I do know is that after several weeks of drinking wine from Chinos, we have stomach pains and headaches that we don't have when we drink similar quantities of similar wines from the big chain groceries and wine stores.
BTW Sergio, I didn't say everything in Chinos was substandard. I said that some things are, so buyers should be careful.

 

[sergio]

I don't know if it is fake, or simply that the wine was mishandled, i.e.perhaps left in hot warehouses for long periods of time, so the wholesalers unload it at discount prices. Whether it is fake, or spoiled, I don't want to buy or drink it. What I do know is that after several weeks of drinking wine from Chinos, we have stomach pains and headaches that we don't have when we drink similar quantities of similar wines from the big chain groceries and wine stores.
BTW Sergio, I didn't say everything in Chinos was substandard. I said that some things are, so buyers should be careful.

I seldom ever buy wine from the "chino" markets but maybe you are right that they are counterfeit. In the case of other products, or at least most of what I buy, the quality seems the same as in the supermarkets. The tissues I paid $65 for in the big supermarket were $45 in a "chino" market and my nose simply couldn't tell the difference but my wallet could.