A Honky Like Me.

[EJLarson]

I'd google for criticism of the electoral system-based voting from 2012 before putting money on it - you'll find a lot of the same arguments that are brought up now and it was way before Trump... In fact, in a 2011 poll the majority of Americans preferred a system using popular vote - overall and also for each group Democrats/Republicans/Independents.

Not talking about philosophical criticism of the pros/cons of the Electoral College. I'm asking about how many on this forum who have posted (or agreed with) "Hillary should have won!" would have posted "Trump should have won!" had the raw vote gone the other way. Would you have favored a Trump win under those circumstances? How about you, Ries?

Just to be clear: I'm not criticizing anyone. This is just human nature in action, wanting your favored candidate/team/whatever to win the close ones.

 

[wineguy999]

Not talking about philosophical criticism of the pros/cons of the Electoral College. I'm asking about how many on this forum who have posted (or agreed with) "Hillary should have won!" would have posted "Trump should have won!" had the raw vote gone the other way. Would you have favored a Trump win under those circumstances? How about you, Ries?

Just to be clear: I'm not criticizing anyone. This is just human nature in action, wanting your favored candidate/team/whatever to win the close ones.

I feel worse about the fact that so many in the United States are content to have a petulant, self-aggrandizing carnival barker as president. America loves celebrity and the cult of personality. Worse yet, they believe that being a celebrity somehow makes one intelligent or capable.

 

[Ries]

I have said earlier, and repeat- I am not crying that the electoral college is unfair.
I think Trump won, under the rules.

I think longterm, the electoral college is pretty antiquated, and will probably change.

I do think that Trump does not have a "mandate".
I think that he will be bad for the US in many ways.
But I dont think he cheated to get in- the republican party had been suppressing black and latino votes for decades, and that may have helped him, but he didnt do that, and it affected who voted, not the simple fact that, under the rules, he got more electoral college votes.

I was merely pointing out that most americans do not live in rural areas- only about 20% of americans do.
The current system, both thru the electoral college and thru the gerrymandered congressional districts and 2 senators per state, gives rural people disproportionate voting power.
I think in the long term, I would prefer to see them have less power over the majority.

Fer instance, Wyoming has 2 senators, and about 285,000 voters per senator.
California has 18 million voters per senator.
Each California senator represents 63 times as many people, but has the same vote.


Regardless- the things that bother me about Trump are not him "cheating".
I think he won.

I am concerned about his extreme and ongoing conflicts of interest, profits from countries he is dealing with as president, his ability to appoint and be the boss of government employees who negotiate his leases, audit his taxes, investigate his foundation, and on and on.
He is declaring himself immune to all conflict of interest laws.

I am concerned about his appointment of unexperienced, untalented, greedy hacks to most important posts.
I think chaos will result.

I am concerned about his lack of interest in actual governing- for instance, he has had something like 2 national security briefings. At this point, Obama, Bush, and Clinton had been attending daily briefings.
Instead, Trump has been conferring with Putin- he as had more discussions with Putin than the NSA.

I am concerned about the fact that ISIS, Al Qaida, Putin, and the KKK, are all happy he won...

 

[thorsten]

Not talking about philosophical criticism of the pros/cons of the Electoral College. I'm asking about how many on this forum who have posted (or agreed with) "Hillary should have won!" would have posted "Trump should have won!" had the raw vote gone the other way. Would you have favored a Trump win under those circumstances? How about you, Ries?

Just to be clear: I'm not criticizing anyone. This is just human nature in action, wanting your favored candidate/team/whatever to win the close ones.

Personally, I think the system is pretty bad - it made sense 200 years ago, but many things are outdated. For example, voting on a Tuesday leads to a low participation, Democrats in Alabama as well as Republicans in California basically don't count, etc.
That being said, the rules were clear before, Trump won and now he should become president. One can like it or not, but that's part of democracy. However, it makes sense to start a discussion about the election system after an election as you can't change it just before a presidential election is about to happen...

 

[EJLarson]

I feel worse about the fact that so many in the United States are content to have a petulant, self-aggrandizing carnival barker as president. America loves celebrity and the cult of personality. Worse yet, they believe that being a celebrity somehow makes one intelligent or capable.

And many share your feelings. So what does it say about Hillary and the Democrats that they couldn't even beat him? We really have to consider that. If practically nobody wanted Donald, how much worse did Hillary have to be perceived to lose?

 

[wineguy999]

And many share your feelings. So what does it say about Hillary and the Democrats that they couldn't even beat him? We really have to consider that. If practically nobody wanted Donald, how much worse did Hillary have to be perceived to lose?

I believe Hillary should never have received the nomination. I've observed for at least 15 years the hatred aimed at her from so many, and I was saying months ago that she would probably prove to be unelectable. I guess the DNC had its head in the sand.

 

[cwo4uscgret]

I voted for Trump. I watched as the left leaning media, the Clinton Machine, and the Old Republican Guard attempted with one contrived scandal after another to stop him. The political dynasty has forgotten who they are supposed to serve...We the people; not the other way around.

People lament "he's not qualified!" When I look at the Constitution, he meets the citizenship and age requirements; the only two requirements I see. Was a one term Senator and community organizer qualified to lead the nation the last eight years? In my opinion he does not. Heck he even asked Argentina to supply Iran with uranium, circumventing the boycott. I've never trusted Obama; but Trump will have to prove his worth too.

Now Clinton is jumping on the recount band wagon after whining about people who contest the election. Even Obama doesn't think Clinton will take any electoral votes away. The supposed organization behind the recount is a sham outfit...probably secretly funded by George "I was a Nazi in WWII" Soros.

I detest people who try to buy elected offices!

 

[TomAtAlki]

one contrived scandal after another

???????

T/

 

[JoeGillis]

I voted for Trump. I watched as the left leaning media, the Clinton Machine, and the Old Republican Guard attempted with one contrived scandal after another to stop him. The political dynasty has forgotten who they are supposed to serve...We the people; not the other way around.

People lament "he's not qualified!" When I look at the Constitution, he meets the citizenship and age requirements; the only two requirements I see. Was a one term Senator and community organizer qualified to lead the nation the last eight years? In my opinion he does not. Heck he even asked Argentina to supply Iran with uranium, circumventing the boycott. I've never trusted Obama; but Trump will have to prove his worth too.

Now Clinton is jumping on the recount band wagon after whining about people who contest the election. Even Obama doesn't think Clinton will take any electoral votes away. The supposed organization behind the recount is a sham outfit...probably secretly funded by George "I was a Nazi in WWII" Soros.

I detest people who try to buy elected offices!

Credulity incarnate.

 

[cwo4uscgret]

Credulity incarnate.

Try to explain that comment to me please.