Advice On Dual Nationality

[nancyinnoa]

Hi all,
I am new to the forum and looking for some advice. I have been living in Argentina about 5 years, with permanent resident status for over three years. I am a US citizen married to an Argentine. I live in Jujuy, so I have yet to meet another American or European who lives permanently anywhere near me... lots of tourists passing through, but no norteamericanos o europeos who live nearby... It's nice up here in the Quebrada.... You should come.

Anyhow. I live here in part because I am a researcher who studies the Andes, and I work in research institutes in the region. I have been content so far to stay a permanent resident up until Saturday... when my husband and I began reading the new CONICET rules for entry, as well as the new reforms of the Ministry of Modernization, which state that applicants for positions in public institutions have to be Argentine nationals. We have spoken with some friends on different commissions in the sciences and it looks like this is being applied for all new positions and possibly for contract renewals (though I am not sure how much it would affect universities because of their autonomy and it does not look like the new ministry has tried to get in there yet). They are applying a law that was passed years ago but that was basically ignored up to now, or at least definitely not applied for any position as lowly as a social science researcher or support personal at an academic institute. But, it is the case now. I'm not sure what exceptions they might make, but the folks I work with at two institutes have suggested that I consider applying for naturalization ASAP (I have a contract renewal coming up at one place and a new application in at another).

My questions are the following... Has anyone else gone through the naturalization process? Has any US citizen gone through it? The US State Department website has two statements regarding acquiring a second nationality that seem a little contradictory, but my read is that they are basically trying to discourage it but will not strip you of your US citizenship unless you try really really hard to get rid if it (definitely not my plan). The statement seems to try and scare you but then you read further down and realize that they basically say they won't take your citizenship unless you declare that you want to renounce it, or you take up an intelligence job for another nation. But, I do want to check in just in case, has anyone else had problems after acquiring Argentine citizenship?

Also, the folks at the courts here are a little perplexed as they have only processed naturalization files for Bolivian citizens before, and they aren't sure exactly what paperwork to accept from the US. For example, they aren't sure whether they would accept my birth certificate with the apostille or whether I need to go back and get the document legalized by a consulate, etc... What has been your experience going through this process? Anyone else out there with experience here? Also, how long did the process take you? They estimated three years here....

Any advice, input, counsel, humor about the process would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Nancy

 

[camel]

You will not lose your US citizenship, there is no problem there. Many US citizens have gotten citizenship in Argentina.

The user "ElCordobes" on this forum went through the whole process while living in the city of Cordoba. Here is a link to his thread documenting the entire process:

http://baexpats.org/...ia-citizenship/

As for the birth certificate, they may not need it at all, or they may require it. If they do require it, they'll probably want it apostilled. It's a hassle, but if you can get it apostilled, it can save delays here in Argentina. To get it apostilled, contact the Secretary of State for the state where your birth certificate is from.

I'm not sure why the process would take 3 years there - since you already have the required time living in the country, and you're married to an Argentine which removes the 2-year residency requirement anyway. In any case, you might as well start the process.


BTW, it's beautiful up there. We did a road trip there 2 years ago and met up with EdRooney from the forum in Salta. I'd love to visit again soon.. if we do, I'll shoot you a PM so we can meet up.

 

[Girino]

One of the strong point of my citizenship application was that if I got Argentine nationality I could work in my trade (energy).
Honestly, I did not research on the truth about this statement, but it made sense since Energy production is still a public sector, AFAIK.

A family member had to get citizenship later in his life (in the '60s) as he was being denied a higher role within a private company because to be the CEO you had to be an Argentine national. I suppose it was an industry requirement (insurance) related to the liability and responsibilities involved with the job.

Sensitive industries might be subjected to stricter applicant rules (nuclear energy, energy production, military, etc.) in any country, so the CONICET rule might be related to this. Of course, there is no treat in allowing a foreigner to research on ancient civilizations, but there might be when allowing 'an outsider' to study the country energy resources or military weapons.


Beside this, I did pursue citizenship because of the ability to live elsewhere in the Mercosur in case we get tired of Argentina, and also as a form to reject my birth country (just psychologically, dual nationality is allowed).

 

[camel]

Beside this, I did pursue citizenship because of the ability to live elsewhere in the Mercosur in case we get tired of Argentina, and also as a form to reject my birth country (just psychologically, dual nationality is allowed).

I'm curious - which other Mercosur countries can you live in, once you're an Argentine citizen?

 

[ElCordobés]

I'm curious - which other Mercosur countries can you live in, once you're an Argentine citizen?

http://www.mercosur.int/innovaportal/v/6425/5/innova.front/residir-y-trabajar-en-el-mercosur

Residencia en el MERCOSUR
Con el objetivo de fortalecer el proceso de integración regional, fueron implementados, a partir del año 2009, instrumentos que facilitan la libre circulación de personas entre los países que conforman el MERCOSUR, a través del “Acuerdo sobre Residencia para los Nacionales de los Estados Partes del MERCOSUR” y del “Acuerdo sobre Residencia para los Nacionales de los Estados Partes del MERCOSUR, Bolivia y Chile”.
Los mecanismos conceden a los ciudadanos del MERCOSUR el derecho a obtener la residencia legal en el territorio de otro Estado Parte. Actualmente se encuentran en vigencia para Argentina, Brasil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Bolivia, Chile, Perú, Colombia y Ecuador.

Residence in the MERCOSUR

With the objective of strengthening the regional integration process, instruments were implemented as of 2009, facilitating the free movement of persons among MERCOSUR countries, through the "Agreement on Residence for Nationals of States Parties MERCOSUR "and the" Agreement on Residence for Nationals of MERCOSUR, Bolivia and Chile ".

The mechanisms grant MERCOSUR citizens the right to obtain legal residence in the territory of another State Party. Currently they are in force for Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Bolivia, Chile, Peru, Colombia and Ecuador.



Residence a MERCOSUR

Con l'obiettivo di rafforzare il processo di integrazione regionale, sono stati implementati, a partire dal 2009, strumenti che facilitano la libera circolazione delle persone tra i paesi del Mercosur, attraverso l ' "Accordo sul soggiorno dei cittadini degli Stati parti MERCOSUR "e" accordo sul soggiorno dei cittadini degli Stati membri del MERCOSUR, Bolivia e Cile ".

Concedere meccanismi cittadini MERCOSUR il diritto di ottenere la residenza legale nel territorio di un altro Stato Parte. Attualmente in vigore per l'Argentina, Brasile, Paraguay, Uruguay, Bolivia, Cile, Perù, Colombia ed Ecuador.

 

[ElCordobés]

I'm curious - which other Mercosur countries can you live in, once you're an Argentine citizen?

I replied more completely but it's being moderated: Argentina, Brasil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Bolivia, Chile, Perú, Colombia y Ecuador.

http://www.mercosur.int/innovaportal/v/6425/5/innova.front/residir-y-trabajar-en-el-mercosur

 

[ElCordobés]

But, I do want to check in just in case, has anyone else had problems after acquiring Argentine citizenship?

Also, the folks at the courts here are a little perplexed as they have only processed naturalization files for Bolivian citizens before, and they aren't sure exactly what paperwork to accept from the US. For example, they aren't sure whether they would accept my birth certificate with the apostille or whether I need to go back and get the document legalized by a consulate, etc... What has been your experience going through this process? Anyone else out there with experience here? Also, how long did the process take you? They estimated three years here....

Any advice, input, counsel, humor about the process would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Nancy

Hi Nancy, Go for it! I applied in Cordoba as camel mentioned. My wife and I are both US-born and US-raised. We've had no issues. Applying wasn't too bad. Each court will approach the process in their own way but your documents from abroad will need an Apostille and to be translated and legalized locally. A local translator will know. I think my posts cover our process pretty well but feel free to ask further questions. I've had four other US citizens ask me about this in the last week. Interesting uptick. :huh:

My wife has since acquire Dutch citizenship as well. And I was recognized as an Italian citizen along with our daughters. (They will ultimately obtain Dutch). I have one child with a court case still pending to award her Argentine citizenship. Our youngest has was born in Argentina so she was natural-born AR, US, IT. All are OK.

As a practical matter, we also have Global Entry and have entered US without issue. We're going to Europe next month with our EU passports, we'll see if re-entry is any different than years past with Global Entry.

Until you pay your roughly USD2300 to renounce plus any exit taxes due....you're not going to escape the long arm of the IRS.

Good luck!

 

[nancyinnoa]

Thanks for the reassurance, all of you.

When I went through the residency process they were clear about the antecedentes they wanted from the States (FBI they said), but the folks in the Juzgado Federal seemed to have no idea either...again the only information they had was on the specifics of which arm of the Bolivian police needed to issue the letter. Which agency needs to produce the letter for the process_...FBI? I know they should know this and will eventually get to figuring out which institution the letter needs to be from, but if I can find a way to cut the wait time by showing up with the right documents from the get go it would be great. The three year wait here is due to a backlog in applications and an understaffed juzgado according to the staff that spoke to me. I'll just take their word for it. The residency application for non-mercosur folks here also took several months longer than the website said it would, but the folks in migraciones were always really cooperative with giving the extensions on the precaria that I needed. I imagine that they must give you a letter stating that the process is in motion which might help with the job stuff?

The state moves slower up here on some things than in the rest of the country. There are upsides, things are less hectic, but everything just takes a while. Jujeños are in general a pretty laid back group of people and their charm makes up for the lack of State. But, I do feel a bit like I have gone to visit a different country when I go to Buenos Aires, Mendoza, or to Cordoba sometimes. It is pretty different down there (in the South, as they say here)...

I have no idea why the ministry of modernization would begin to apply this law for history researchers on Andean indigenous peoples... it is written like a law that would try to limit access to sensitive areas for the state to national workers... Just like Serafina says, I would imagine it would apply to intelligence or maybe energy, but someone is trying to read the law as applying to all public employment. I think they are most likely going to start applying it as a requirement for all concursos for public sector work (except maybe unis and others that have a bit of autonomy). They might make exceptions...? Either way, if I'm not losing the US citizenship or complicating getting back to see family, vamos adelante!

Thanks again you guys! And yes, do come north and let me know if you do!

Nancy

 

[ElCordobés]

Some juzgados want FBI, some only national RNR and local background check and others include Interpol. You could tell them that they do Interpol in the South. The FBI you would complete in the same way as your migracion if they insist. All of the others *should* be requested by the court directly.

And you can track your case online. I believe the law requires the court to start you case within days of your request.

 

[Rich One]

I replied more completely but it's being moderated: Argentina, Brasil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Bolivia, Chile, Perú, Colombia y Ecuador.

http://www.mercosur....-en-el-mercosur

True but you need to apply for resident visa to be able to work, etc. , which is faster/easier for Mercosur countries... As a tourist you sure can live in those Mercosur countries mentioned.
Pretty clear in the link included