Am I a little nuts to choose BA? Help.

[steveinbsas]

My advice: Go somewhere else. If you want a "European" atmosphere, try Europe. Maybe Prague or some part of eastern Europe that is not much more expensive than BA - maybe the same or cheaper. Or try countries of Latin America that don't have a hangup about being "European".

It's probable the OP was BS'ing us from the beginning. Nonetheless, I think BA would be a great place to blow his $5000 and go back to LA with nothing to show for it and even less hope for the future than he has now.

 

[chris]

Yes I suspect it was BS but so what? People expressed their opinions. Most people stay here because they have a major personal attachment - they married an Argentine who doesn't want to leave or they have a romantic attachment. A few just put down roots and stay on, maybe the result of indecision. For those who have been here a long time, the luster wears off as they learn how things work and have to deal with the economy and the system. Living as a "permatourist" for a few years is not enough to get a real handle on the society and culture. Given present conditions I'd never recommend Argentina.

 

[Mark2012]

Buenos Aires - Recoleta, at least - looks more "European" than most Latin American countries but beneath the surface it is far from "European". Anyway WHAT is European today? Countries like the UK and France have HUGE Muslim and Black populations. Is that "European" ? The definition of European has changed but to Porteños all Englishmen carry umbrellas and wear bowlers. it's a very antiquated picture of Europe.

As for the US, the historic parts of cities like Boston and Philadelphia are a lot more "European" in the traditonal sense than most of BA.

Everywhere you go in BA, across dowtown, recoleta, San Telmo, Old Palermo, etc, you will find European style and admostfere eighter. And it was not spelled for me. 9 / 10 tell it, its obious you guys belong to the 10% remaining wich think different (or pretend it).
By far BA is the most european style city in america, and have nothing to compare with boston or philla, both citys got skycrapers in downtown, BA got them outside (just like some european citys too).
My advice is that if you want to be in a european style city, with great atmosfere, and american caracteristics eigther, then go to BA. But if you want a city where there is only old buildings at your way and almost nothing else, then go to praga or paris.

 

[Mark2012]

Yes I suspect it was BS but so what? People expressed their opinions. Most people stay here because they have a major personal attachment - they married an Argentine who doesn't want to leave or they have a romantic attachment. A few just put down roots and stay on, maybe the result of indecision. For those who have been here a long time, the luster wears off as they learn how things work and have to deal with the economy and the system. Living as a "permatourist" for a few years is not enough to get a real handle on the society and culture. Given present conditions I'd never recommend Argentina.

Ist funny how the "conditions" were fine enough (at least) 4 or 5 years ago to bring to live and stay many of those wich are telling you right now that "the conditions are not good". You should know that like 5 years ago the country were much more closer from the 2001-2002 economyc crisis than today. And the country has been growing up like 8% per year since that time. So, the conditions are not really great, but sure much moore better than 5 years ago.

 

[chris]

Conditions are not good because inflation is out of control, there are severe currency restrictions, the crime rate is very high and the government is increasingly authoritarian. This is not just an "expat" opinion but what I hear from my Argentine friends.

As for Europe, there are skyscrapers there too and lots of contemporary architecture. What is your definiton of "European"?

 

[ElQueso]

I came here 6 years ago, and everyone I know or have met since then, from Argentina, thinks things are getting worse here. That's just to get an unfettered opinion from someone who's not an expat, like myself, who would already have that opinion.

BTW - by the very nature of cyclic economic woes like Argentina has, the farther you get from problems and devaluations in time, the closer you get to new problems and devaluations, with somewhere in the middle (like, 4 or 5 years ago) being the best time you will see.

 

[Argento]

So I gather what you might be saying is that Argentina might be in that part of the cycle that was similiar to the build up just before the 2001 crash, and assuming history repeating, there could then follow a mid-period like that of 2002-2007 more or less, where it becomes affordable again? For those living on foreign currency?

But if places are getting high prices paid to them by customers now, for example a 15 peso small coffee, how would they ever chose to lower that to 4 pesos? Or maybe people would just stop buying eventually and places would be forced to lower prices again. Or for people living on foreign currency and prices still marked the same, the exchange would have to get to something like 10:1 to become as affordable as some years ago? Not sure how this all works.

Several are wondering if Argentina can become as affordable as before for people living on foreign currencies.

 

[ElQueso]

The truth is, I was lampooning Mark2012's comments about things being better now than 4-5 years ago. Probably didn't do too a job at the lampooning part.

I came here for the first time a bit more than 6 years ago, and moved here a bit under 6 years ago. When I came, I didn't know much about Argentina, apart from vaguely remembering something about the default in 2002. Prices were quite low, inflation really was under 10% and people weren't freaking about about buying meat and were having no problems finding imported items in the store. I think I came here just about in the best economic time since the crash - although I can't speak for 2005, say, since I wasn't here.

For my part, I have not studied economics seriously previously, and have never really needed a reason to (so I thought - I was wrong about that) until I moved here and things began to fall apart. Recently, I have been studying Austrian economics, under the premise that Keynsian economics just doesn't seem to work. I don't really know enough to apply serious analysis as to what may happen to drive prices down here.

But one thing seems to me, as I study Austrian economics, that there are ways to bring prices down again if the government would let it. Doubtful that this will happen here because of the general mindset - even amongst all of these problems, I saw an article recently that said most Argentinians, although unhappy with Cristina, are not unhappy with the idea of State-ordered interference in the market. Apparently they just feel Cristina is not doing a good job of controlling things.

A free market (a truly free market, which the US has never even approached in the last 100 years or more) will indeed lower prices. I doubt we will ever see that here.

For foreigners, however, I'm pretty sure that things will get better as far as prices go, at least for many essentials. First, they already have. Using the blue dollar rate, I have found that things have become much more affordable here. I have already seen approximately a 25% savings last month due to the difference in the official rate and the blue dollar rate, the latter which is a more realistic evaluation of the peso against the dollar. At some point the official rate will have to get closer to the blue rate because the government, I don't think, can continue their insane policies of currency control - they don't have the dollars to so as has been obvious with their desperate attempts to control capital flight, really only making things even worse as everyone begins to lose confidence.

The big problem then becomes the ability to import manufactured goods. With a low peso, obviously imported goods are going to be more expensive and I don't have an answer to that one. If the country can return to the relative prosperity of a few years ago, the value of the peso against the dollar can get better and prices for imported manufactured goods can get cheaper. In even a market here, particularly with imported goods, the pressure will be great for prices to come down when they can.

But you still have the Argentine government getting in the way of that with import taxes and other idiotic restrictions.

 

[Argento]

Very helpful and thorough reply! This helps other readers and I. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[Argento]

I was thinking as an example, if I'm a local and I sell widgets. 2 months ago I sold them for 10 pesos each, having to raise prices to cover my overhead (due to inflation, taxes, devalued peso, etc) from times before. People still bought from me though. Ok. So this month I raise them to 15 pesos. People still buying from me. Why would I ever chose to lower prices again back to 4 pesos, even if overhead for me gets easier, better, less costly, when people are still buying from me at 15 pesos a widget? I could make even more profit.
I personally would not do this, I like to give people a good deal on things, and would lower prices if my overhead got better, but just saying, several businesses might think like this.
Therefore, that is why I wonder how at all could marked prices on items even change to lower numbers? As well, why I think that the way Argentina could become affordable like times before on those living on foreign currencies, and the marked prices do not increase, is for the exchange rate goes to something like 10:1.

If there is another precise economic detail beyond simply people buying less and businesses forced to lower their marked prices, that would lower marked prices, that is what I am wondering of what it is.

Ah the financial system.