Americans Giving Up Citizenship / New Roman Empire?

[ajoknoblauch]

Besides the unnecessary personal attach with someone you may disagree, you also out your self as an ignoramus. The fact that many people like you are uncomfortable with the truth is your problem, not a conspiracy created by others. By all your comments here in this thread it is clear you are perfectly comfortable with the US State and its behavior vis-a-vis war and toward its own citizens. Good for you. But many folks who love liberty and freedom, and know it comes directly from God, not from the state, are not comfortable with the US State and its decades long external war of aggression and internal war against its own people.. Many people understand that Man/Woman, the human, is free because of the rights given to us by God. These are inalienable rights. And to those who can understand this truth clearly understand that any police state is in direct contradiciton to the human's inalienable rights. This behavior infringes on the right to liberty, and certainly to the ideas that the US was founded. In this instance at this point in time the truth is simply the truth. Therefore, many are deciding to leave for philosophical reasons that are also practical reasons. There is no instance in history where the state's behavior such as the modern day US making war and spying on its citizens has resulted in anything positive for the nation or its people As for Arlean's friend, what he encountered in his research is most certainly true. US citizens are paying taxes to payoff debts to a privately owned Federal Reserve. The US citizens are chatel per the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. The banks create the money via bonds. The bonds are paid back by the people with interest. If they are not well then instead of a 2008 bail out next time we can expect a 2013 Cyprus Style bail in. Either way, the private bankers win and we the people who love life, liberty, and peace are the losers.

Nothing can come directly from a fairy-tale figure. But perhaps you have a real flesh-and-blood Santa Claus?

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Why are you so upset with someone you happen to disagree? Himmm.... You don;t have to listen, read, or care about what someone else says or distributes. Why are you anxious to silence another ?

So, it's OK to scam people then?

 

[PhilipDT]

Why are you so upset with someone you happen to disagree? Himmm.... You don;t have to listen, read, or care about what someone else says or distributes. Why are you anxious to silence another ?

I didn't tell him to be silent. I told him to "Stop trying to make money off people dumb enough to buy into your crazy tinfoil hat shit!"*


*FYI Towncyr, that is the correct use of the quotation mark.

 

[PhilipDT]

But many folks who love liberty and freedom, and know it comes directly from God, not from the state, are not comfortable with the US State and its decades long external war of aggression and internal war against its own people.. Many people understand that Man/Woman, the human, is free because of the rights given to us by God.

The problem with believing that certain rights are a product of the grace of god instead of innate human dignity is that what god has given (which, according to the faithful, is pretty much everything) god can take away. Considering that God is, for the most part, only heard through other humans these days, you get all sorts of problems when said humans "learn" that god has decided to take away some of those rights from some people.

 

[ghost]

...

The answers are ALL there people.....

Roger Sayles

That, all by itself, is the scariest statement any wingnut can make. Sounds like scientology to me.

 

[che]

Nothing can come directly from a fairy-tale figure. But perhaps you have a real flesh-and-blood Santa Claus?

In this instance my "real flesh-and-blood Santa Claus" are the US Founders, before them the great philosophers of the Enlightenment, and before them there was Confuscious, Plato, Jesus, Buddha etc. My proof that "Santa Claus" indeed landed his sled is the gift of the US Constitution. The best gift any kid could ask out of Santa, don't you think?

You outed your self as a "State-Worshipper" long ago so the response from you that God does not exist was predictable.

I was hoping for a little more creativity in a response or something at least partly clever so we could have parried the afternoon away.

I suppose you are trying to state, without actually stating it, that we the people do not have inalienable rights as given to us by God and stated in the Constitution because sophisticated smart people like you know there is no God.

But you leave out the truth of the existence of the US Constitution. An entirely man made creation and ... the law. Santa's gift to we the people.

The "Death of God" (pick up Paul Johnson's Modern Times if you'd like an interesting read on the subject) is not a knew concept. Socialists, Fascists, Communists, etc etc pick your -ism use it daily to continue their quest for power and control over the people via the State's power. A manifestation of the idea right here is "Futbul Para Todos." The world is full of similar examples today... maybe health care para todos could be considered the current US government's steps into the zone.

The problem with believing that certain rights are a product of the grace of god instead of innate human dignity is that what god has given (which, according to the faithful, is pretty much everything) god can take away. Considering that God is, for the most part, only heard through other humans these days, you get all sorts of problems when said humans "learn" that god has decided to take away some of those rights from some people.

Fortunately for us all, many people anticipated the response that "there is no God" so they spent time time articulating the contract between the State and its citizens vis a vis right to life, liberty, and property. This way, citizens are covered in a nice clean secular manner against the potential of state tyranny. The constitution outlines the three branches of government required here on earh because they understood the need for checks and balances. It is pretty simple really. Those in power will take away and/or steal anything that is not nailed down. The Constitution and its three branches were meant to protect we the peopple against this behavior.

Back to the subject of the thread, the modern US warfare state is both externally and internally aggressive. It is now inconsistent with the Constitution. History demonstrates that the only result for both the state and its people is bad. Therefore, for many they can clearly see that the practical future for US citizens is moving in the wrong direction. At worst we have Mao, Stalin. and Hitler as a few recent examples of where this could lead. So, some citizens are deciding to exit for what becomes both philosophical and practical reasons. To argue otherwise would seem to be missing the obvious state of our times.

 

[splaying]

I have not read all the comments on this post. I cannot imagine anyone giving up their American Citizenship at all. Even if you do not intend to live in the USA - think of the benefits of citizenship -- when you age -- Medicare and Social Security - if you wish to travel to other countries most places do not ask you to have a visa to their country allowing easy access. South America has been changing but it is more to do with a financial consideration. So if you give up American Citizenship - what country do you wish to become a full time citizen? Think about the reasons why and why not too. If taxes are one of the reasons -- depends on your income levels - if retired already you might lose out on other benefits. Personally, I see no reason ever not to claim I am a US Citizen. I proudly served my country during the Viet Nam Crisis despite public opinion and I would do it again too despite the fact I am much older today. Those are my thoughts on this subject. Walter

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

There are a lot of things I don't like about my country, the USA. I don't like that large corporations determine legal trajectory through lobbying politicians. I don't like that my government thinks it is ok to circumvent due process in certain situations. I don't like that the top 1% of the income bracket holds 30% of all the wealth and pays less than their share of taxes. I don't like that we overspend the money we have. As a veteran, I especially don't like that we are quick to use our military arm instead of diplomacy.

However, to me it is not a country I just live in. It is MY country. It belongs to me and every other US citizen and permanent resident. The last thing I'd do is run somewhere else because of the problems it has. With all of it's faults it is still the only country that I know of where people risk their lives trying to get it.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

I am no jingoist but, at the same time, I cannot imagine surrendering my US citizenship, even if I had only pragmatic reasons for keeping it. When Argentines or Chileans ask me whether I like their country, I tell them it's the wrong question - there are some things I like and some things I dislike, just as with my own country.