Anti-Peronist Opposition Calls It A Day

There is a famous phrase from Men*m:

"Si decía lo que iba a hacer, nadie me hubiera votado"

Way after he said:

"Revolución productiva y salariazo!"

That sums it all up.
 
"See, it happens that peronismo is something very well defined"


I'm in the mood for jokes today. This is the finest one liners I've heard in years.

It's perfect.
 
There is a famous phrase from Men*m:

"Si decía lo que iba a hacer, nadie me hubiera votado"

Way after he said:

"Revolución productiva y salariazo!"

That sums it all up.

Sums up that peronism is a mix of cheap populism and political opportunism, indeed.

Anyway, let's not distract ourselves from our more righteous quest. The quest for the perfect one liner as inspireded by Matias, he is who is not a kirchnernist. No way, uh uh, no sir.

My entry, pure and distilled.
  • "Peronist Economist".

Ba boom, tish. Try and say it without laughing!
 
Matías, we've debated this many times before, and here's a basic summary:

Ed: Peronists are usually neo-liberals that have collectively worked to destroy the Argentine economy. Proof:, Menem, Rodrigo, Cavallo, even Perón himself...​

Matías: No you don't understand peronism. It's about anti-neo-liberalism. Proof: the slogans, the hymns, the rhetoric.​


Essentially, your argument is "look at what peronism claims and what a few of them have done!" My argument is, "no look at what most peronists have actually done!"

Since you're a sociologist, I would greatly encourage you to look at peronism in comparison to other so-called labour movements around the world: PSOE in Spain, the Labour Party in the UK, the Socialists in France.

All of these movements follow the exact same pattern as Peronism: they start off as workers parties, with not only good rhetoric, but also with good policies to back up the rhetoric (eg, greater worker participation in politics, nationalisation of industry, universal suffrage...). But inevitably, the party gets co-opted by the powerful and the policies are reversed (eg, Labour dismantling the NHS, the Socialists imposing austerity, Menem privatising the country's industry...).

My point is: you are a sociologist with a good understanding of history. You should know better than to look at rhetoric.

There should be no doubt that since 2003 a lot of good has been done to repair the Argentine economy. But a basic study of political movements and politicians shows that this was not done because of the Menemist Kirchners but rather in spite of them. The Argentine populace sent the ruling classes a very clear message in 2001-02: change or die. So the K's did an abrupt about face, but as recent years have shown, just like any other politician, they will gladly return to neo-liberalism if there is no popular pressure against them. The popular pressure in 2001 did not come from the PJ party structure, and it will not in the future either.

Ed, Peronism itself is a very complicated issue and there are lots of analysts that do not agree with a lot of stuff. There are libraries on both sides, so its complicated.

What i m gonna say is that peronism evolved into 2 different ways of understanding politics. Lets call it left and right. There were both Nac & pop, both patriotas, both for the working class, just that one, the left, saw Peronism as a road to socialism, and the right, the so called burocracia sindical created a political class, from where Menem will emerge, that gradually separated from its base. These right peronismo allied in the 70s with the traditional anti peronists, the militars, google Lopez Rega. And then in the 90s allied with other anti peronists, the UCD. Thats why I say they were not peronists.

But for one reason, the first Peronism, the one from 1946 to 1952 is the one that’s in everybodys mind when we talk of peronism. It has an enormous symbolic power over the two other peronismos. Those changes were huge! The country literally divided, it was soooo stronger than the Ks, division was a lot more passionate.
But the important thing is that in general, when people talk of peronismo, they are referring to that first peronismo, keynesianist, industrial, full employment level, lots of rights, nationalisations, masses and the charismatic leader, authoritarian, Mussolini alike, etc.

The Ks are trying to reproduce that first peronismo. For instance, being the most pro-industry government since (3rd) Peron. Intervening in economy. Thats why the import restrictions, to impulse national industry. Or the nationalisation of YPF and Aerolineas. Or the not taking debt, or taxing (some, not all) corporations. Yes the Ks were menemists, and that takes a lot of credit from them. But in some ways I still believe them. You know, being menemistas obbeyed to politics and how politics work. Its not like they supported everything Menem did, they opposed to a lot of stuff. I see the menemist Ks as a fase of power construction. They just had to do it. They had to privatise YPF (being Santa Cruz a very important province in oil) so they can have access to presidency four years later. They had to negotiate with the central power so after that they can do whatever they want. I think the "real" Ks are the ones in power and not the Menemists.
 
you dont wanna read Ed? Ok, its up to you, but then you write than Peronismo is antidemocratical, as you did. when clearly is the exact opposite. You need to study, if not from me from somewhere else, cause you don t know enough.
 
you liked the ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ moronic post of bajo cero
 
Well besides the debates and rehtoric. After having lived in Argentina as long as I did. Experiencing both the good and the bad. The best way I can summurize my opinion is like this.

To me Peronism makes about a much sense a sticking a fork in your eye to improve your vision. I mean why not practice politics that sound great to the poor ingnorany needy folks but somehome make your country one of the global poster childern of dysfuntionalism.




"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Albert Eisten
 
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