architecture

is just being old enough to make it great architecture?

NO. Some buildings were obviously far better than others, just as is the case today.

is historic enough ? Historic is enough to justify preservation but does not necessarily mean that the building has architectural or artistic merit. If an important event occurred in a building, the building may merit preservation however for historical and not architectural reasons.

is being decorated enough? No. Some styles of architecture are highly elaborate (baroque - rococo) while others are more minimalist. Certainly the Empire State Building would be considered great architecture however it is far from "decorated" or ornamental. The Kavanagh Building on Florida next to the Plaza San Martin is another architecturally interesting building (the first skyscraper in BA) that is far from "decorated", though I find its lines lack a certain grace.

could it have something to do with style? There are many styles of architecture and each has its merits.

we could start with the chorizo. not the sausage or the steak.

it is old, it is historic, there are many of them. but is it great architecture? I wouldn't consider it great architecture however I would say that it is significant as a part of the architectural tradition of the city and thus deserves a degree of preservation.

I don't quite agree with Ries regarding apartment buildings in the US from the 30's vs those of Buenos Aires. He implies that elaborate ornamentation is somehow better architecture. Buenos Aires traditionally modeled itself after Paris and built many apartment buildings in the Belle Epoque style - even well after the period had passed in Europe. Cities like New York followed another style. Many great homes, mansions, along 5th Avenue, Madison Avenue and environs eventually gave way to apartment buildings (as they did in BA) however most, if not all, of these New York buildings were very solidly built of stone - not always brick - and along very grand lines with impressive lobbies, wide halls and many amenities. New York and other cities in the US built extraoirdinary mansions - every bit, if not more elaborate, than those that were built on Avenida Alvear and elsewhere in BA.

I agree that La Plata cathedral is a fine cathedral, quite pure (uncluttered by junk as is the case with the Lujan cathedral) and beautifully maintained, in general a rarity for churches in Argentina. It is well worth a visit. La Plata is close to BA and easily accessible by bus or train. There is also an old fashioned natural history museum and an impressive performing arts complex (dreadful on the exterior but impressive inside) called the Teatro Argentino de la Plata where you can see good productions of opera, ballet as well as some orchestra concerts. Now that the Teatro Colon is closed many music lovers are making the trip to La Plata. The theatre runs special buses from BA than connect with the performances and take you back after the performance.
 
gehry-hotel_1252139i.jpg
 
Is that your yardstick of great architecture?

Honestly not having a go, just very curious what you are measuring the architecture of this city against.
 
So you like Ghery's hotel in Spain... are we just posting pics of our favorite structures worldwide or are we talking local architecture? Diego, what is your opinion on what makes great architecture? You've gotten a few replies back, now I wonder your take on the topic. Do you appreciate the local architecture or do you think that (and I quote) "there s only great architecture here if you havent traveled the world and have a limited idea of what great architecture is"? You're quick to point out that people who like the architecture in Buenos Aires have a limited idea of what great architecture is... so enlighten us and answer your own question.
 
Bianca,
my question was partially just a question pure and simple. but also part of me was getting tired of listening to all the "should i move to ba, pls convince me" discussions on this website so i threw out a little architectural emotion. so part of me wanted a change in topics. the part of me that hasnt visited a lot of ba past the central portion hoped to hear about more interesting buildings to visit around the city. and the last part of me wanted to hear what all these people who throw out "all the great architecture in ba" " it truly is a historic district" really mean as i feel like my architectural opinion of ba basically unfortunately feels that the face of buenos aires is lots of grey ugly rectanglur shaped buildings with balconies across their sides. this is really what you see if you look in the broad sweep. that said, i like buenos aires, am here when im here by choice because i like it.

again i urge people to speak up for the buildings they care about.
end the demolition!
http://basta-de-demoler.blogspot.com/

i think there are a fair number of handsome buildings around town - mostly some older ones and as tangobob pointed out a few newer ones. to me, they are interesting, they are worth preserving for the most part as part of the history of the city. but most of them as examples of their particular genre, when compared to many other examples of whatever style they are, are not pioneering, innovative or close to being the best examples of that genre or style. that doesnt mean they are not impressive, beautiful, interesting, worth preserving. it simply means when compared to others, they are not the best examples of their style. so in my mind, are not "great" architecture. i dont really want to be cast in the mold of not liking the many examples of beautiful buildings here, i do like them. but kind of like beatles look-a-like shows, they dont quite make it to beatle level. or now mj look-a-like shows. although in that case, at least their personality might be better.... so i dont agree with any statement that ba is "full" of great architecture. there certainly are some great buildings. but its not the majority nor is it even a substantial number that are great. the proportion is less than many other cities. and more than some.

so what is a great architecture to me?
its a man made structure that exhibits a combination of (positive) qualities that rise above and set it apart from other structures of similar function and or style. thats of course subjective and usually it takes some time and the sum of many peoples judgements for a structure to qualify.
 
as regards frank gehry... the gehry spanish hotel pictured above is very good but is more like fun architecture to me. the conversation does rise to great architecture when one is talking about his guggenheim museum building in bilbao, spain. that building rises to the heights of great architecture. of course thats just an opinion.

someone asked what i measure/compare the architecture of ba against. i guess im asking to measure it against all the worlds palette of architecture that exists or existed. how else can one determine if a structure exceeds the normal or banal, to be called great.

it really seems to boil down to an artistic judgement on the level of inspiration expressed.

and gosh, my list is endless from ankor wat to the eiffel tower, to the city of chichen itza, to rheims cathedral, to the aswan dam in egypt, to the temple complexes in bangkok, westminster abbey and the parliment buildings to the guggenheim museum by gehry to the water pavilion, the birds nest and the new opera building in beijing, to the chrysler building in nyc, well, on and on goes my list. but i cant really think of anything i add to the list from argentina. la nacion bank is impressive and sturdy, but it doesnt come close to being great architecture when compared to whats around the world.
 
My opinion is that it doesn't have to be the best to be considered great. I guess because I see "the best" as a singular piece (there is only one), but greatness (as in better than the norm) is all around. Maybe greatness isn't typical of all of the architecture here, but I think that great architecture is plentiful in this city. If the architecture suites the locale and fits contextually, I think that is a great foundation. Build onto that correct proportions and good craftsmanship, well thought out details and a story, then to me, it's great. That's what is pleasing to my eye.

I do understand your comparison of architecture to good music and the notion of "look-a-like shows". And I absolutely hate the tall apartment buildings in my neighborhood, they are, as you put it, grey, ugly rectangular buildings with balconies sticking off the sides. There is no thought behind them, besides production and to make money. But, in general, I adore the architecture here.

And to be fair, I probably do put more emphasis on the history and age of a building than most people might. In the case of a historical architecture, it's more about the emotion and the story to me. I don't separate the general aesthetics from the history of the building, the history makes the building more appealing to me. It evokes emotion, which is a very unique, personal reaction and leads to many, many different takes on what great architecture really is. Please don't belittle someone's opinion on what is great, because it is something that cannot be gauged so simply.
 
sorry Bianca in the rush of typing in the rush of life emails, posts etc get out the mouth too fast sometimes. i enjoy your comments and insight. keep posting. david
 
diego7david said:
sorry Bianca in the rush of typing in the rush of life emails, posts etc get out the mouth too fast sometimes. i enjoy your comments and insight. keep posting. david

No, I understand. And I apologize, I didn't mean that directly towards you. Just in general. It's a passionate subject for some. And like anything of that nature, opinions run strong.
 
Some thoughts. I'm certainly not an expert but here a few of my thoughs on the issue.

Even the greats can make mistakes.

Context.
I love Gehry's work. His buildings are just amazing, hypnotizing & yes, I would say great architecture. But, if they don't fit within the context they are being put, we have a problem. The Stata comes to mind. You can't just decide you want a Gehry building and stick it anywhere.

Proportion.
Botta is another architect that I appreciate, however, his monstorous casino in Campione d'Italia is a sin. It looms over the tiny city like a scary monster.

Test of time.
Another criteria for great architecture is the test of time. Does the structure resonate through the years? It is still relevant, beautiful? How will Gehry's building age?

Take the library TangoBob posted above. Personally, I think it's hideous & totally irrelevant for now. Perhaps when it was put up it was an innovation and impressive.

Redundancy.
Calatrava, enough with the one arm white bridges.....

Continuity.
As for the architecture in Argentina (and other places), yes, perhaps there are some beautiful buildings here, but you need to take a picture of it alone because it is next to it is most likely something hideous or irrelavant.

What's lovely about Paris is the street full of beautiful buildings that work well together. (This could go with context, but I think it's a bit different).

Quality.
The workmanship of a structure is important. Concrete peices falling off the building does not make great architecture. I mean quality of work & materials, not lack of maintenence or neglect.
 
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