Are Our Criticisms of Argentine Legitimate?

BSS

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Many members of this website are critical of the current Argentine President and her politics, and while this post won’t take a position on current politics, it will try to establish that our criticisms may not be legitimate when viewed within the context of Argentine society and legal tradition.

The Argentine constitution is remarkably similar to the Constitution of the United States, discounting the reforms of 1994 (which dealt more with political maneuvering by Menem) and some specific text added during Juan Perón’s rule. However, while both documents have their roots English common law, Locke and Montesquieu, their interpretation and application a extremely different. For example, both the Constitution of the United Sates and Argentina give the individual a “right to work.” In the United States, what is implied is that each individual has the right to enter freely into a contract with another, offering his labor and services. In Argentina, it is often interpreted to mean that the state not only has the responsibility of guaranteeing said right, but the obligation to provide employment.

Both Constitutions provide the right to assemble, associate freely, and by extension, protest against the government. But while the letter of the law is similar, the forms of protest permitted, socially and legally, couldn’t be more different in the United States and Argentina. One cannot begin to critique the differences without understanding the Argentine ‘Proceso,’ the limited popular support of social protest in the United States and the tradition of protests that existed and exist in Latin America (and by extension, Argentina).

The United States is also almost unique among Western democracies in that a large (majority?) of the population does not support a strong federal government. While that is less true today, thanks to the rapid expansion of executive power since Clinton, recent elections in the United States makes clear that the United States population remains skeptical of government attempts to provide social services and assume responsibility not specifically enumerated in it’s constitution. Argentines, however, hold an expansive and liberal view on the responsibility and role of the Federal government. Again, without passing judgement, the Argentine citizen has delegated a large amount of responsibility to the state; while minimizing personal responsibility, and by extension, power.

The same can be said with respect to economic policy. The right to private property is a basic right, usually recognized as a natural law, in modern, liberal democracies- it’s stance here in Argentina is tentative. The Argentine State has respected it weakly, at best. But again, that natural law would be hard to respect (although it is in the Argentine Constitution) if society interprets the constitution as saying that every individual has a right to work, and in the case of the Ciudad de Buenos Aires, an inherent right to a household (it is in the Constitution of the Ciudad de Buenos Aires) .The United States Constitution makes no promises about equality or opportunity, except in respect to the law. No one is guaranteed a job, a home, success or equality of standing (again, except in his natural state and before the law). Whereas, equality in Argentina, as stated in the their constitution, is understood differently. When the President speaks about dividing the wealth, money for families with children, she is addressing the Argentine concept of equality and opportunity.

So, are our criticisms legitimate? In many cases, no. We are looking at Argentine society through an American/English/Australian/whatever prism. What we understand as a the social contract between the government and the people varies greatly from what the overwhelming majority of Argentines understand it to be. While our laws may be the same on paper, it is impossible to import our national experiences here. This post isn’t going to touch the myriad of other problems that Argentina faces. But when it comes to what responsibility the citizen will or will not assume in Argentine, well, it appears that the overwhelming majority of Argentines have already settled that discussion.
 
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president and to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonous to the American public."
- Teddy Roosevelt, in 1918 during the First World War.

But i cannot speak for the Argentine public....
 
I'm not sure what intellectual masturbation is, but it sounds like something I could be down with. What is your basis for saying that the criticisms are legitimate? Is the critisism of Argentine Jurisprudences, style, content or yes to all?
 
BSS said:
I'm not sure what intellectual masturbation is, but it sounds like something I could be down with. What is your basis for saying that the criticisms are legitimate? Is the critisism of Argentine Jurisprudences, style, content or yes to all?

You are basically stating that this is the Argentina that most Argentinians want so therefor we are wrong in our criticisms. My take is completely different, you have a completely corrupt political class here. Whatever the laws or constitution say here are irrelevant as there are no strong institutions to insure that the laws are enforced or the constitution is respected. Until that changes the Argentinians aren't getting what they want, they are only getting only what a corrupt minority decides for them.
 
Intellectual Masturbation could be defined as posing an intellectual stance or position for the sake of sounding smart.

Another definition could be that you are positing this without a real focus on any outcome, and you are just doing it because you have some built up intellectual stances and you need to release them.

I disagree with you and would posit that no criticism is ever not legitimate. The criticism may not take into account the current or past situation, but it is none the less legitimate. It may well be a "mis-informed" criticism.
 
Also, I would urge BSS to read up on United States history, as protest is not something we are unfamiliar with, just something that we have expressed in different ways throughout our history.
 
gouchobob said:
You are basically stating that this is the Argentina that most Argentinians want so therefor we are wrong in our criticisms. My take is completely different, you have a completely corrupt political class here. Whatever the laws or constitution say here are irrelevant as there are no strong institutions to insure that the laws are enforced or the constitution is respected. Until that changes the Argentinians aren't getting what they want, they are only getting only what a corrupt minority decides for them.

You won't hear an argument from me in regard to your comment about politicians, but I take issue with your idea that the will of the Argentines isn't being represented. A look at domestic policies here (excluding the Proceso, which was not a legitimate expression of the peoples' will) reveal a high degree of agreement. Menem's policies have been overwhelming rejected, even more so in hindsight (by Argentines, I mean), and the 'opposition' in Argentina does not disagree with the FVP in regard to policy matters. Actually, many of the opposition parties want to further the sentiments described in the original post. There is disagreement because of the continued abuse of Argentine institutions, corruption, style of management, some taxes etc. I won't try and defend the policies of the FVP-I can't-but I don't see any evidence of wide rejection of current policies by Argentines.

As for trying to sound smart: I'm smarter than your average dog, but probably not your average man. But there seems to be a lack of serious discussion about current events, especially in Argentine media. Plus, it's tough to talk to my argie boyfriend and friends about this because they get very defensive, so I posted it here. I'm completely open to changing my mind when presented with good arguments, and welcome holes poked in my thoughts. That's what it is all about.
 
gouchobob said:
You are basically stating that this is the Argentina that most Argentinians want so therefor we are wrong in our criticisms. My take is completely different, you have a completely corrupt political class here. Whatever the laws or constitution say here are irrelevant as there are no strong institutions to insure that the laws are enforced or the constitution is respected. Until that changes the Argentinians aren't getting what they want, they are only getting only what a corrupt minority decides for them.

YOu are right but in order to change , the public needs to change
this is called democracy. once the public stops complaining and starts acting/expressing and try to change the corrupt system, then the government could change. other than that, yes, the public deserves what they get cause they dont do ANYTHING about it. they have the power to change instead of sitting down in front of a tv, watching the news and complain and not do anything about it.

if you dont like something - do something about it.
actions speak louder than words
 
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