Argentina Missing Submarine

My first reaction was that the sub was old, in poor condition and hadn't been replaced due to the Kirchners' hatred of the military. Then it occurred to me that Macri has had two years to increase military spending and bring things up to date. After that an Argentine friend made the observation that the submarine was no different from the trains or anything else in the country. What would make conditions any different, he argued. Mediocre and careless maintenance? Bribes? Maybe....


I do not know about submarines but major overhauls do not take two years of planning. They take take a lot more: you need budget first and foremost, and then the planning takes place, and then the overhaul occurs. In my sector these things were planned at the time of buying the machines.
With older equipment you also have to coordinate with the manufacturer(s), which may be gone out of business. It is a lot more complicated than simply saying ""Oh well, I'll take the thing for a check up at the workshop".

Besides, the submarine underwent a half-life overhaul 3 years ago. Now, if we want to argue on the poor management/choices done for this overhaul it is another thing.
 
The sub was not particularly old. It entered service in 1985 and had its mid-life upgrade completed in 2013. Both the USS Ohio and the USS Bremerton entered service in 1981, are currently deployed and were a lot more active than any Argentine submarine. Here is my take on what might have caused the issue:
The ARA San Juan and its sister, the ARA Santa Cruz were the envy of all Latin American navies when first deployed back in the mid-80s. Designed in Germany specifically for Argentina, the TR-1700 class was the largest and most ambitious non-nuclear submarines of the era, vastly outclassing any other sub deployed South of the Equator at the time. Even the German Navy did not posses submarines this advanced. The idea was that the first two subs of the class would be build in Germany and the other four would be build in Argentina. It was a very aggressive and audacious plan. The TR-1700 was an extremely complex and advanced work of engineering, requiring very advanced metallurgy, machinery and manufacturing techniques to be build. But the Argentines felt confided that they could tackle the challenge. They were wrong. The combination of the economic crisis with the delays and budget overruns when building such submarines domestically doomed the project. The ARA Santa Fe and Santiago del Estero were left unfinished and only the two subs built in Germany were delivered: The ARA Santa Cruz and ARA San Juan.
Lacking the audacity and self confidence of its neighbors, and having a long tradition of steady gradual progress instead of attempts of leaps of engineering, Brazil opted for a much more conservative approach: The domestic production of the much more simple German designed IKL-209 submarine. Unlike the TR-1700, the IKL-209 was much simpler, being half of the size of its Argentine counterpart and not nearly as advanced. It was also a tested and proven design, and well within the industrial (and financial) capabilities possessed by Brazil at the time.
The first two IKL-209 submarines for the Brazilian Navy were build in Germany. Two others were successfully build at the Arsenal da Marinha, in Rio de Janeiro, giving Brazil true know how on submarine manufacturing. Based on the acquired knowledge, a new more advanced class of submarines (The Tikuna Class) was developed domestically and build without foreign oversight or assistance. Brazil now had full command of advanced submarine manufacturing techniques.
But why is this relevant to the case of the ARA San Juan?
Because back in 2000, the ARA Santa Cruz (the same class as the San Juan) needed a mid-life upgrade. This is a very complex process, where a sub's hull is split open, the interior is completely gutted and refurbished. Lacking the engineering capabilities to do the process in-house, the Argentine Navy sent the ARA Santa Cruz to Brazil, where thanks to the knowledge gained on successful IKL-209 program, the country's shipyards were equipped and capable of executing such a complex task. The ARA Santa Cruz completed its mid-life upgrade in Brazil during the early 2000s and has operated ever since without major incident.
In 2008 it was the San Juan's turn for a mid-life upgrade, and the Ks were ruling Argentina. In an incredible move, it was ordered that the San Juan should have its mid-life upgrade done in Argentina, a country which has never successfully manufactured a submarine and lacked the engineering and industrial resources to conduct such a complex and sensitive task. But who cares when blind nationalism is at stake? Info is now starting to emerge that many corners were cut during the mid-life upgrade process. The sub batteries were not replaced, but refurbished. There is also accusations that work contracts were given to companies that lack qualification to work on submarines, but were well connected to the Ks.
If those accusation are proven to be true, than the blood of 44 sailors are in Cristina's hand.
 
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]"In 2008 it was the San Juan's turn for a mid-life upgrade, and the Ks were ruling Argentina. In an incredible move, it was ordered that the San Juan should have its mid-life upgrade done in Argentina, a country which has never successfully manufactured a submarine and lacked the engineering and industrial resources to conduct such a complex and sensitive task. But who cares when blind nationalism is at stake? Info is now starting to emerge that many corners were cut during the mid-life upgrade process. The sub batteries were not replaced, but refurbished. There is also accusations that work contracts were given to companies that lack qualification to work on submarines, but were well connected to the Ks. [/background]
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]If those accusation are proven to be true, than the blood of 44 sailors are in Cristina's hand."[/background]


[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]If this is true, the Argentine friend who commented that the disaster was probably due to shoddy maintenance was right. [/background]
 
I read somewhere (most likely on La Nación) that the batteries were German batteries, and the only thing that was not replaced was the battery case. Everything else was replaced.

But the works were badly executed, they had 351 days of delay and the battery warranty expired in the meanwhile.

Anyway looking at the last message received, the cause of it all was water infiltration through the snorkel, which penetrated into the battery tank #3 causing a short circuit, then a fire (with just smoke and no flames). I do not know about submarines specifically, but getting a battery near water is a sure path to 1) battery failure 2) accidents. Now, if they only had a working fire fighting system... but I do not know about under water fire fighting system. That is a completely different story than surface systems.
 
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The sub was not particularly old. It entered service in 1985 and had its mid-life upgrade completed in 2013. Both the USS Ohio and the USS Bremerton entered service in 1981, are currently deployed and were a lot more active than any Argentine submarine. Here is my take on what might have caused the issue:
The ARA San Juan and its sister, the ARA Santa Cruz were the envy of all Latin American navies when first deployed back in the mid-80s. Designed in Germany specifically for Argentina, the TR-1700 class was the largest and most ambitious non-nuclear submarines of the era, vastly outclassing any other sub deployed South of the Equator at the time. Even the German Navy did not posses submarines this advanced. The idea was that the first two subs of the class would be build in Germany and the other four would be build in Argentina. It was a very aggressive and audacious plan. The TR-1700 was an extremely complex and advanced work of engineering, requiring very advanced metallurgy, machinery and manufacturing techniques to be build. But the Argentines felt confided that they could tackle the challenge. They were wrong. The combination of the economic crisis with the delays and budget overruns when building such submarines domestically doomed the project. The ARA Santa Fe and Santiago del Estero were left unfinished and only the two subs built in Germany were delivered: The ARA Santa Cruz and ARA San Juan.
Lacking the audacity and self confidence of its neighbors, and having a long tradition of steady gradual progress instead of attempts of leaps of engineering, Brazil opted for a much more conservative approach: The domestic production of the much more simple German designed IKL-209 submarine. Unlike the TR-1700, the IKL-209 was much simpler, being half of the size of its Argentine counterpart and not nearly as advanced. It was also a tested and proven design, and well within the industrial (and financial) capabilities possessed by Brazil at the time.
The first two IKL-209 submarines for the Brazilian Navy were build in Germany. Two others were successfully build at the Arsenal da Marinha, in Rio de Janeiro, giving Brazil true know how on submarine manufacturing. Based on the acquired knowledge, a new more advanced class of submarines (The Tikuna Class) was developed domestically and build without foreign oversight or assistance. Brazil now had full command of advanced submarine manufacturing techniques.
But why is this relevant to the case of the ARA San Juan?
Because back in 2000, the ARA Santa Cruz (the same class as the San Juan) needed a mid-life upgrade. This is a very complex process, where a sub's hull is split open, the interior is completely gutted and refurbished. Lacking the engineering capabilities to do the process in-house, the Argentine Navy sent the ARA Santa Cruz to Brazil, where thanks to the knowledge gained on successful IKL-209 program, the country's shipyards were equipped and capable of executing such a complex task. The ARA Santa Cruz completed its mid-life upgrade in Brazil during the early 2000s and has operated ever since without major incident.
In 2008 it was the San Juan's turn for a mid-life upgrade, and the Ks were ruling Argentina. In an incredible move, it was ordered that the San Juan should have its mid-life upgrade done in Argentina, a country which has never successfully manufactured a submarine and lacked the engineering and industrial resources to conduct such a complex and sensitive task. But who cares when blind nationalism is at stake? Info is now starting to emerge that many corners were cut during the mid-life upgrade process. The sub batteries were not replaced, but refurbished. There is also accusations that work contracts were given to companies that lack qualification to work on submarines, but were well connected to the Ks.
If those accusation are proven to be true, than the blood of 44 sailors are in Cristina's hand.

That's OK, CFK was more than happy to kick business Brazil's way when she considered it politically expedient.

La venta de los Embraer podría ocasionarle una gran pérdida a Aerolíneas
 
That's OK, CFK was more than happy to kick business Brazil's way when she considered it politically expedient.

La venta de los Embraer podría ocasionarle una gran pérdida a Aerolíneas

I think the big difference between the two transactions is that the mid-life upgrade done on the ARA Santa Cruz was conducted by the Arsenal da Marinha do Rio de Janeiro (AMRJ), which is literally the Brazilian Navy. It is unlikely that Cristina had strong enough contacts inside the Brazilian Navy to get a cut on the costs of the project for the ARA San Juan or that the Brazilian Navy itself would be interested in getting involved in such shenanigans with Cristina (who they definitely did not care for). The AMRJ certainly did not depend on such services to the Armada Argentina in order to survive.
EMBRAER on the other hand is a private company, eager to sell jets in Argentina (it survives on sales). I can easily see them being willing to throw some "monies" Cristina's way to secure the deal.
 
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