Argentina sees 22,000 companies close over two years

carride

Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
1,070
Likes
1,186
I do not know enough about the tire industry they highlight in the article as the most recent and alarming closure. So ignoring all the obvious things stated, am I wrong to assume that the raw materials for production of tires is something imported, and those costs did not come down as quickly as competing finished product imports? Or no, they produced everything from start to finish here in Argentina? For the primary domestic tire producer in Argentina, I do not recall ever seeing their tires on new cars. Were they only a replacement tire? Did they advertise on TV?
FATE's case was not isolated. According to the association Industriales Pymes Argentinos, or IPA, more than 22,000 companies have closed and more than 300,000 formal jobs have been lost over the past two years as a result of a trade liberalization policy that reduced tariffs with the promise of lowering consumer prices.
The 920 jobs lost with FATE's closure represent families that could be left without income. In economic terms, he added, the country loses its main tire manufacturer, a loss that he said cannot be overlooked.

 
Car tires in Argentina have been well known to be several times more expensive than what can be purchased abroad. Unfortunate news for those folks working at the factory, but good news for the millions of people driving cars in Argentina that can now buy cheap tires and spend their savings on other goods and services
 
Car tires in Argentina have been well known to be several times more expensive than what can be purchased abroad. Unfortunate news for those folks working at the factory, but good news for the millions of people driving cars in Argentina that can now buy cheap tires and spend their savings on other goods and services
why cant argentinian industry produce competively priced tires? Chinese producers benefit from massive scale (often producing 40,000+ units per day per line vs. Argentina's smaller, less specialized plants), lower labor/energy costs, state-backed efficiencies, and sometimes "dumping" practices (selling below full cost due to global overcapacity in Asia). In some cases, imported finished tires cost less than Argentine raw materials like rubber (which Argentina imports anyway).

High structural costs in Argentina:
  • Elevated taxes and fiscal burdens (one of the highest in Latin America for production).
  • Expensive logistics, energy, and infrastructure.
  • Currency/exchange rate issues, past restrictions (though liberalized recently), and lack of export incentives.
  • Limited economies of scale: Argentine plants (including Fate) often produce a wide variety in smaller volumes for a domestic market, lacking the specialization or global integration (e.g., tech/R&D from multinational partners) that giants like Bridgestone, Michelin, or Asian firms have.
In short, without protectionist barriers (removed to open the economy), Argentine producers face "unfair" or distorted global competition where low-cost Asian output undercuts them decisively. The government views this as necessary for efficiency and lower consumer prices, but critics (unions, industrial groups like UIA) argue it accelerates deindustrialization in tradable sectors without enough support for local adaptation. The tire case mirrors struggles in textiles, autoparts, and other industries.

what do you say, do you support protectionism or free opnen economy? me, that latter. i dont like living in fake reality. you either can compete or you cant and must adapt, but certainly not live in an artificial reality where the government (always changing) is reponsible for you existance/protection. thats a recipe for disaster.

argentina imports their rubber anyway. for me it seems like, if you want your production to have a chance at competivity, it must b completely locally sourced materials. if were going to import the rubber, just give me the finished product (tire) at that point and stop messing about in a game with china you can NOT win. chao, argentina tire manufacturers.
 
Last edited:
The family reported that they had been losing money for 30 years. How does one operate for 30 years if at a loss? unless they are playing accounting games. I believe they also went bankrupt in 2019, and have been dealing with labour issues (disputes). I would have to assume the family has structured the business such that different companies own the property, buildings, equipment, IP etc, and the operations is a bare operating company that runs at a slight loss while the others have the profit probably in order to manage their risk during the labour dispute.

In one of the articles, some of their offerings were not the most expensive, and some were even the cheapest option compared to the imports. For this to be the case, then what you have listed as structural disadvantages couldn't actually exist or can't actually put them at a disadvantage. This is another case of Schrodingers economy. It goes to show that its not purely policy but more indicative of unwilling to come to terms with their protected industry status no longer applying. Nevertheless the options in Chile are much cheaper.

The competition is not just from China, but why are Michelin, Firestone, Goodyear cheaper in all other countries as well, when they aren't made in China?

Argentina is a decently large population of 47M. The taxes that hurt don't justify the high prices to the extent they are, particularly when other models are the lowest prices for that size tire. It seems like they know the larger tires apply to more expensive model cars and assume the customer is capable and willing to pay, and unwilling to drive to Chile or Brazil just to buy tires. The cost of the trip ends up offsetting the savings. Some can't be bothered to their spend time off driving etc just for that, when there ends up being no net savings. They have taken advantage of that until now.
 
A lot of businesses were speculating by front-running inflation to drive up margins. Customers were generally lost on what relative pricing was and were so busy trying to buy everything before their salary devalued that they weren't aware. Now that prices are relatively stable and margins tighter, you can see those stores who realistically never had the volume to stay in business.

Honestly, the vast majority of stores that I've seen in Neuquen, both before and after Milei are for the most part chronically empty of customers. At first I wondered if they were laundering fronts for negro money but the most likely answer is that when you aren't financing the inventory, own the building and staff it with family, you can go for quite a while on very low sales with such high margins.

Most of the time I check Mercado Libre for a product I see in store, it's usually half the price. So we're talking a 100% mark-up for the store front/employees, in addition to the cost-of-goods profit margin.
 
All well and good to use tariffs to help local businesses compete against global markets. Nestor Kirchner did this and Argentina was able to recover somewhat during his first term; it ultimately was the right strategy, even though he ended up being a thief and ultra corrupt. However, the issue is that the taxes are stifling and the government makes running a business near impossible. The way forward for Argentina is to make things much more business friendly, but also protect local industries with tariffs. I think the whole full free trade thing is a scam. Argentina is a perfect case study, and now Nepal recently, of what full free trade does to a country by hollowing out its industry. On the other hand, Argentina needs to get rid of about 90% of its taxes and curb the power of trade unions by not permitting them to constantly shut companies down. Being able to actually export industrial products would be nice for a change, but with the crappy business laws, regulations, and red tape it is it basically takes a miracle to have a successful business, much less export.
 
All well and good to use tariffs to help local businesses compete against global markets. Nestor Kirchner did this and Argentina was able to recover somewhat during his first term; it ultimately was the right strategy, even though he ended up being a thief and ultra corrupt. However, the issue is that the taxes are stifling and the government makes running a business near impossible. The way forward for Argentina is to make things much more business friendly, but also protect local industries with tariffs. I think the whole full free trade thing is a scam. Argentina is a perfect case study, and now Nepal recently, of what full free trade does to a country by hollowing out its industry. On the other hand, Argentina needs to get rid of about 90% of its taxes and curb the power of trade unions by not permitting them to constantly shut companies down. Being able to actually export industrial products would be nice for a change, but with the crappy business laws, regulations, and red tape it is it basically takes a miracle to have a successful business, much less export.
It's a vicious circle of tax evasion that has ARCA constantly trying to figure out how to tax the front-end of the production cycle because it knows you're going to lie about the back-end numbers.

Take for example the whole black market employee situation. This is probably one of the easiest forms of tax evasion to spot. I mean how hard is it for an inspector to walk into a store, count the employees attending and compare it to payroll tax rolls??? Yet, we're told that's why the Jubilacion minima is so low and why they have to tax your Billete Virtual on gross receipts.
 
A lot of businesses were speculating by front-running inflation to drive up margins. Customers were generally lost on what relative pricing was and were so busy trying to buy everything before their salary devalued that they weren't aware. Now that prices are relatively stable and margins tighter, you can see those stores who realistically never had the volume to stay in business.

Honestly, the vast majority of stores that I've seen in Neuquen, both before and after Milei are for the most part chronically empty of customers. At first I wondered if they were laundering fronts for negro money but the most likely answer is that when you aren't financing the inventory, own the building and staff it with family, you can go for quite a while on very low sales with such high margins.

Most of the time I check Mercado Libre for a product I see in store, it's usually half the price. So we're talking a 100% mark-up for the store front/employees, in addition to the cost-of-goods profit margin.
I agree. I think because credit isn't available here and everything is paid for in cash, the business owners think they need to earn a massive return on it. The inflated rate of return is far above what businesses in other countries would target typically.

I agree that Mercado Libre brings in competition, though not necessarily half the price. That might be a function of location being in the south. So I don't know what the final impact shipping might have.

All well and good to use tariffs to help local businesses compete against global markets. Nestor Kirchner did this and Argentina was able to recover somewhat during his first term; it ultimately was the right strategy, even though he ended up being a thief and ultra corrupt. However, the issue is that the taxes are stifling and the government makes running a business near impossible. The way forward for Argentina is to make things much more business friendly, but also protect local industries with tariffs. I think the whole full free trade thing is a scam. Argentina is a perfect case study, and now Nepal recently, of what full free trade does to a country by hollowing out its industry. On the other hand, Argentina needs to get rid of about 90% of its taxes and curb the power of trade unions by not permitting them to constantly shut companies down. Being able to actually export industrial products would be nice for a change, but with the crappy business laws, regulations, and red tape it is it basically takes a miracle to have a successful business, much less export.
How is Free Trade a wholesale scam? You largely seeing how trying to cancel agreements and effective free trade is working out for the US. No businesses are relocating, protected industries are just charging more (steel), and its costing Americans around $500B or more annually in taxes.
It is also making American made goods less competitive on the global scale since they have tariffs on their inputs compared to similar products made in other countries. You can also much discussion about the proposed elimination of de minimus in Europe and charging a minimum tax per shipment when buying from AliExpress, Shein etc. Again, it just prevents the buyers from buying directly and protecting businesses that literally buy the same product then mark it up multiple times.

And the tax structure in Argentina is not horrible on corporate income tax etc. The biggest issue is the provincial and transfer related federal taxes that are charged on Gross Amounts. This should be included in the reform, but as it includes the large bulk of provincial revenues, it is going to be a severe overhaul as they need to make that up from somewhere else, I have suggested property/land value taxes and a portion of income tax. They can then enforce taxation and by increasing the tax base through elimination of the black market (for sure with but potentially without lowering nominal tax rates) this combination should cover the tax base.

When exporting you can issue Factura E that does not include IVA. Much of the red tape, delays and issues with importing and exporting was eliminated with this government.

It's a vicious circle of tax evasion that has ARCA constantly trying to figure out how to tax the front-end of the production cycle because it knows you're going to lie about the back-end numbers.

Take for example the whole black market employee situation. This is probably one of the easiest forms of tax evasion to spot. I mean how hard is it for an inspector to walk into a store, count the employees attending and compare it to payroll tax rolls??? Yet, we're told that's why the Jubilacion minima is so low and why they have to tax your Billete Virtual on gross receipts.

Agree they need to eliminate the whole black market system. I think this might be coming in the future once they put through the labour and tax reform. Again the gross receipts is the provincial revenue, not federal, but that is the tax that is quite imposing because it is on gross amounts. As stated above, that needs to be eliminated. The transfer in/out tax of business accounts should also be eliminated.
 
Back
Top