Argentina's Economy

[nicoenarg]

Do you call anyone who has a different view than yours Naive?


Yes, you don't trust the world bank numbers, you don't trust the Government provided numbers, but you do trust the private (independent institutes)?

So you think China is not trustworthy? Who is? the reality is that China & India are the future economic Hub, technological advances and by the way... start learning Chinese, in 10 years, you will need it.



Again, I trust the worldbank, IMF, CIA factbook...


Ok, I agree with this one... that is going to drag Argentina's economy down... These regulations should be revamped... hopefully, they will be

Would you mind sharing your view of the solution to the problems of Argentina's economy?

No I only call people who are naive, naive like yourself.

No I never said I didn't trust numbers from World Bank. I said I don't trust the numbers from the Argentine government, starting with inflation and ending with everything else. It is a fact, and if you knew anything about economics you'd know this, that even the World Bank and IMF have to use numbers provided by governments because its the governments that have most of the data needed to compile any kind of report on the economic outlook.

The proposal that China and India might be the future economic hub has got absolutely nothing to do with whether the Chinese government is trustworthy or not. Again The Economist, WSJ and the IMF all said that this year the Chinese economy was most probably slower than showed by official data. However, when statistics are released, they use official data provided there is nothing else that is available. Now the case with Argentina is worse than China and that's saying something.

As for me learning Chinese. Lol. Oh man. This is hilarious. Do you just come up with these lines as you go or do you prepare them beforehand? Because I think you could use them in your stand up comedy routine or something. A lot of people I have met over the years in different countries think this way. And I will say this in the most polite way possible, it is stupid.

Why do I say so? Well let's consider Chinese involvement as an example in African region. Chinese companies have set up shop in droves and are hiring workers there in droves. Do you know how many people there had to learn Chinese? Oh exactly ZERO. The Chinese supervisors that are sent from China by the Chinese companies HAVE to speak English to communicate with the workers. Very simple.

Now if China took over the world (yeah don't hold your breath for that), you won't be able to get anywhere even if you knew Chinese, unless you became a Chinese citizen. Maybe you should start practicing how to effectively say "I'm proud to be Chinese!" I'm sure you won't have any problem with that at all.

If you trust the IMF, World Bank and CIA factbook, that's fine. I don't have anything against these institutes (unlike Cristina who thinks the international banks are her enemies and evil because they ask her to repay the money Argentine governments took from them as a loan), but like I said before, the numbers coming out of the government of Argentina are not trustworthy. You even used the inflation numbers presented by independent institutes so you have no room to complain.

You are hopeful that the import restrictions will be "revamped"? Funny, seeing that they were only put in place in February and the government is touting them as if they worked like a charm. Even you seem to be buying the BS presented to you by Cristina that you were going to have a budget surplus soon. Starry-eyed much!

If you're honestly hoping things will just magically change for the better then again you're naive. Instead of backtracking and changing her stupidity Cristina cried foul when the US and the EU applied restrictions on Argentine exports in response to Argentine protectionism. Cristina thought and still thinks that other countries should not protect their interests, everything should be about Argentina! If there exists a pictorial dictionary, I'm sure they define "idiot" with Cristina's face next to it.

As for solutions, like I said, the government should stop stealing. Secondly, they should get their grubby hands out of business. They want to regulate, sure go ahead, but when you steal businesses from foreign companies like Repsol-YPF then others become weary of wanting to invest in your country. If people aren't going to invest in Argentina then the country will grow stagnant, Cristina will not have enough dollars to grab from the people and then another default on payments, another crisis, etc.

People don't just say "Argentine economy sucks and is headed for a crash if nothing is done soon", we say this because that's basically the end result of the policies being put in place by your dear government. Its collective suicide by the people of Argentina so that Cristina can line her pockets with more money and with claims of sainthood.

Regardless of opinions and your pride, there is no place for Argentina on the world stage and in terms of a better economy unless trust is restored. Until then, no long term solutions and no stable economy.

Being proud of Argentina is not wrong, of course, there are plenty of things to be proud about: Culture, art, architecture, etc. However the economy is one thing you can't be proud of. Like I said before, you have to be both naive and delusional to think the Argentine economy is doing great.

 

[nicoenarg]

Here's the article from The Economist I was referring to before: http://www.economist.com/node/21548242

 

[megan]

Here's the article from The Economist I was referring to before: http://www.economist.com/node/21548242

Quote from your article

What seems to have started as a desire to avoid bad headlines in a country with a history of hyperinflation has led to the debasement of INDEC, once one of Latin America's best statistical offices. Its premises are now plastered with posters supporting the president, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner. Independent-minded staff were replaced by self-described “Cristinistas”. In an extraordinary abuse of power by a democratic government, independent economists have been forced to stop publishing their own estimates of inflation by fines and threats of prosecution. Misreported prices have cheated holders of inflation-linked bonds out of billions of dollars.

From this week, we have decided to drop INDEC's figures entirely. We are tired of being an unwilling party to what appears to be a deliberate attempt to deceive voters and swindle investors

Thanks for sharing.

Aside from calling me naive and delusional, I find your posts to be very informative.

 

[Iznogud]

Please provide a different kind of background. Tell me you're not a young adult, state that you have responsibilities, education, a profession, a job, assets and family under your care and still choose to believe those fairy tales of yours over the SSDD facts.

Been around the block a few times. The other day I posted a link to a graph showing how many ceros had been removed to the peso in my lifetime and they were too man to count. Looks like it's not over yet.

Thank you for your optimism, obvioulsy it's reality-poof. Wish it was contagious.

 

[nicoenarg]

Quote from your article

Thanks for sharing.

Aside from calling me naive and delusional, I find your posts to be very informative.

No problem. Now check out the following two posts. The Economist said the figures are not trustworthy but when the EIU (Economist Intelligence Unit) created a report for Argentina, they used official (INDEC's) figures:

http://baexpats.org/expat-life/2316...foreign-pensions-into-pesos-6.html#post173687

http://baexpats.org/expat-life/2316...foreign-pensions-into-pesos-7.html#post173992

That's what I have been referring to. Institutes know the official figures are wrong but in the absence of a strong alternative, they are forced to use official figures.

 

[glasgowjohn]

when Argentina publishes debt figures , how is the debt accrued by the provincias accounted for?

 

[Montauk_Project]

There are a lot of people who try to paint a negative picture of Argentina, most of them Argentines who THINK things are worse, and (sadly) want thing to get worse so there is a coup and Christina gets kicked out.
Then they get angry that they can´t get together a presentable oposition. Macri as president? Duhalde as president? Are any of those viable?
The funny thing is, most of these people who complain the most are doing quite well. "El Campo" has never earned so much money and industry is increasing. I wonder when they will change their opinion, like in Brazil, where people realized that a larger middle class and programs to bennefit the poor is to everyone´s bennefit.
And all of this when the rest of the world is in a long recession. 25% unemployment in Spain, and real wages in the US have declined over the past 20 years.

 

[nicoenarg]

There are a lot of people who try to paint a negative picture of Argentina, most of them Argentines who THINK things are worse, and (sadly) want thing to get worse so there is a coup and Christina gets kicked out.
Then they get angry that they can´t get together a presentable oposition. Macri as president? Duhalde as president? Are any of those viable?
The funny thing is, most of these people who complain the most are doing quite well. "El Campo" has never earned so much money and industry is increasing. I wonder when they will change their opinion, like in Brazil, where people realized that a larger middle class and programs to bennefit the poor is to everyone´s bennefit.
And all of this when the rest of the world is in a long recession. 25% unemployment in Spain, and real wages in the US have declined over the past 20 years.

Oh right...blame the rich. Its like CFK herself has registered on BAExpats to promote her BS. I wonder what happens to the botox in her fingers when she types.

EDIT: On second thought, I don't want to know!

 

[PhilipDT]

"El Campo" has never earned so much money and industry is increasing. I wonder when they will change their opinion, like in Brazil, where people realized that a larger middle class and programs to bennefit the poor is to everyone´s bennefit.

They don't need to change their opinions if they believe that. Christina is waging all out warefare on the middle class. The wealthy aren't nearly as affected.

 

[Dipoots]

let's take a balanced approach. the glass is neither half empty or half full, it is half.

Good for you to be proud to be an Argentine. It is very important to be proud of your country. In a way, it defines your very existence and place in this work. It speaks of your integrity. You can hate the government but still love your country. On the other hand, if the US government gives you a US passport on condition that you give up your home country passport, would you take up the offer.

This country is blessed with many things. An educated populace, aplenty of commodity resources, and mild climate. But why hasn't become a first world country. Some say the corruption, some say this poor governance, too much polictiking, and all that... but I have read somewhere that says Culture; Culture of the people. Let me pose a bold and very politically incorrect proposition, of which I have not thought about it deep enough to have a position. Have you wondered what would the US be if the Spanish were the colonial masters instead of the British. Do you wonder why in Europe the Northern states countries generally seem to be in a better shape than the South Latin-origin countries. Also, it is better to have a democracy or a more authoritarian government... The style of government matters and for a emerging nation beset with many problems, a more authoritarian style may be suitable (until it reaches second to first world status). For example, China would not be where it is today if it embraced western style democracy. On the other hand, US would not be the leader in innovation if it did not have democracy...

How to turn ARG around? Yo no se. Before blasting off solution, has anybody thought of the root cause of Argentina's problems? I wish it would be as simple as having a change in government or specific policy.
That said, Colombia has shown that it is possible, starting with Uribe and now Santos...


quote=megan;179836]That's a good start, what else?[/quote]