Argentina's history of slavery: should there be reparations?

[sergio]

There are generally two types of reparations in a human rights-based case. Restitution (e.g. where those with illicit gains surrender them back to the victim) and compensation (e.g. to offset the damages that have been suffered by the victim) Any reparation needs to be clear in who was the criminal and who was the victim. This always needs to be supported by a public apology, commorations and guarantees of non-repetition. Statutory limitations for claims are another story but from my personal perspective, claims should focus on those alive today who have suffered damages that are clearly linked to a human rights event in which the state was involved.

In the US (which differs somewhat to Argentina) there are generations alive today who are still experiencing economic damages arising from slavery. While their (great)grandparents may have been set "free" 150 years ago, they were set free without money in their pocket to a society with a whole raft of racial segregation laws by the state designed to keep them disadvantaged and deprive them of certain resources. These laws continued to recent times affecting citizens who are alive today and experienced comparatively disadvantaged lives by design through no fault of their own. This for me is where reparation by the state to many descendants of slavery has a stronger case and also a stronger benefit since any monies received from reparations could be used to reduce the statistical "gap" between them and other citizens by creating capital to be able to achieve equal opportunity and thus balance the scales of justice.

In an Argentine slavery context, I think it is a little fuzzier since it may be harder to find subsequent laws that made life deliberately harder for the descendants of slaves, however, it may be possible to make a case to show the state as being responsible for systematically erasing their cultural identity, with the consequences still affecting living generations. In this case, I would imagine reparation could be best served on a collective level aimed at financing cultural awareness programs, which would make it possible for their descendants to learn about Afro-Argentine culture as easily as they could learn about Roman-Catholic European Argentine culture, for example.

This is well thought out but I don't think Argentina can be left off the hook. I knew an Argentine woman of African descent who told me that she knew of many people like herself. She insisted that Argentines are so racist that they want to deny the existence of people like herself. She was a singer who ended in poverty, fortunately able to live out her life in the actors old age home on Santa Fe near 9 de julio. Surely she deserved reparations, no? And many others I suspect she could have identified.

 

[Rich One]

Countries in the receiving end of slave trade must be concerned..! But mostly the descendants of Nigerian slave traders don't feel guilt..?

BBC article on the great-grand-children of Nigerian slave Traders...


'My Nigerian great-grandfather sold slaves'

'My Nigerian great-grandfather sold slaves'

The legacies of colonial slave-traders are being reassessed, but what about the Africans who profited?

www.bbc.com

 

[antipodean]

Countries in the receiving end of slave trade must be concerned..! But mostly the descendants of Nigerian slave traders don't feel guilt..?

BBC article on the great-grand-children of Nigerian slave Traders...


'My Nigerian great-grandfather sold slaves'

'My Nigerian great-grandfather sold slaves'

The legacies of colonial slave-traders are being reassessed, but what about the Africans who profited?

www.bbc.com

Mauritania only "abolished" slavery by law in 1981, while it only criminalised owning slaves in 2007.

I think the subject of slavery reparations in most historic cases is one of the state responsibility rather than personal responsibility. After-all the state is continuous and was involved in the act causing the damages, despite the fact its laws may have changed since the state is still the state. Same way a state may need to pay reparations to living victims of cruel and unusual punishments or other forms of persecution in times gone by for example.

 

[Renzi]

Well they can acknowledge the grave offense of slavery and promise to compensate when they are in a better position. The acknowledgement alone would be something.

It would be something for who? It would be symbolic at best.

I could accept the arguments about reparations if we were talking about recent history, and/or there was a direct link with governments or corporations that still exist. But there were so many actors involved in the slave trade, and it happened at a time when private companies like the Dutch East India Company had more power than nations, with so many intermediaries (including powerful Africans, pirates, etc.) that it would be almost impossible to determine, who to even seek reparations from.

In some ways, the reparations "movement" is based on the compensation for Holocaust victims, but even here, no one has been talking about suing the post-1990 government of Germany. Most of the ongoing legal action has been against specific individuals and financial institutions.

I would rather more resources be devoted to stopping slavery and human trafficking that is going on today. By some estimates, the total number of people living in conditions that can legally be described as slavery now is the most its been since the transatlantic slave trade era.

 

[Iznogud]

A story, any story, be it history or a tale, without proper context, lacks too much to be relevant for revisionism purposes.

Looking backwards without a significant understanding of the path that got you there in the first place is not the best way to pass judgement of things that happened in past times.

Human nature is what it is.

Never argue with an idjit...

Iz

 

[Pierre Smith]

This entire thread is utterly delusional.

Whenever the slave owning era of Argentina was, it's like five iterations ago, and plays zero part in the Argentine national consciousness. In America, every school kid learns there were slaves, in Argentina there's no interest or knowledge at all of such things.

Additionally, even if Argentines knew about slavery in their past, most would not care or connect it to any current problem or disfavored group in the country currently. And they'd be correct. There's just no population of the descendants of slaves like there is in America. There's no politics around this, and if there were it would run the other way - as people emphasize the European and conceal any African heritage.

Finally, reparations?!?! Reparations to whatever blacks you could dig up and trot out would be popular like paying money to today's Chileans or Paraguayans for the war crimes of a 150 years ago would be popular.

 

[sergio]

This entire thread is utterly delusional.

Whenever the slave owning era of Argentina was, it's like five iterations ago, and plays zero part in the Argentine national consciousness. In America, every school kid learns there were slaves, in Argentina there's no interest or knowledge at all of such things.

Additionally, even if Argentines knew about slavery in their past, most would not care or connect it to any current problem or disfavored group in the country currently. And they'd be correct. There's just no population of the descendants of slaves like there is in America. There's no politics around this, and if there were it would run the other way - as people emphasize the European and conceal any African heritage.

Finally, reparations?!?! Reparations to whatever blacks you could dig up and trot out would be popular like paying money to today's Chileans or Paraguayans for the war crimes of a 150 years ago would be popular.

True, Argentina's history of slavery is not taught and not in the consciousness of the people. That's what my late Afro-Argentine friend said to me (I commented on this earlier), so shouldn't this be corrected? Kids in the US know about slavery in their history because it's taught in school and portrayed in films. Its existed in the US and Argentina at the same time. The ownership of humans by other humans is a horrendous violation of human rights. This happened in Argentina.

If you can't agree to compensation for descendants of slaves, would you agree that this aspect of Argentine history should at least be uncovered, taught in school and portrayed in TV and in films? And what's wrong with a public apology? There is value to symbolism.

 

[Rich One]

True, Argentina's history of slavery is not taught and not in the consciousness of the people. That's what my late Afro-Argentine friend said to me (I commented on this earlier), so shouldn't this be corrected? Kids in the US know about slavery in their history because it's taught in school and portrayed in films. Its existed in the US and Argentina at the same time. The ownership of humans by other humans is a horrendous violation of human rights. This happened in Argentina.

If you can't agree to compensation for descendants of slaves, would you agree that this aspect of Argentine history should at least be uncovered, taught in school and portrayed in TV and in films? And what's wrong with a public apology? There is value to symbolism.

Perhaps a teleseries like The worldwide renown Brazilian Teleseries "La esclava Isaura" that depicted the Colonial times in Brazil, with the abuses of slaves.." La Esclava Cristina" ?

Escrava Isaura (1976 TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Escrava Isaura became one of the most popular telenovelas in the world, being broadcast in over 80 countries.[2] It was a major hit in South America, the Eastern Bloc, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Africa, Indonesia, and the People's Republic of China.[1] It was among the earliest foreign television series allowed to air in China, and the first with a foreign actress playing the main character.[1] It was the first soap opera aired in the Soviet Union[1] in 1988–1989 (reduced to 15 hour-long episodes) and in Poland[1] in 1985. Escrava Isaura is one of the only foreign-language telenovelas aired in the United Kingdom, being broadcast on Channel 4 in 1987 as Isaura the Slave Girl. It was also the first show broadcast dubbed into Galician when Galician-language channel TVG was launched in 1985.

 

[sergio]

Perhaps a teleseries like The worldwide renown Brazilian Teleseries "La esclava Isaura" that depicted the Colonial times in Brazil, with the abuses of slaves.." La Esclava Cristina" ?

Escrava Isaura (1976 TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Escrava Isaura became one of the most popular telenovelas in the world, being broadcast in over 80 countries.[2] It was a major hit in South America, the Eastern Bloc, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Africa, Indonesia, and the People's Republic of China.[1] It was among the earliest foreign television series allowed to air in China, and the first with a foreign actress playing the main character.[1] It was the first soap opera aired in the Soviet Union[1] in 1988–1989 (reduced to 15 hour-long episodes) and in Poland[1] in 1985. Escrava Isaura is one of the only foreign-language telenovelas aired in the United Kingdom, being broadcast on Channel 4 in 1987 as Isaura the Slave Girl. It was also the first show broadcast dubbed into Galician when Galician-language channel TVG was launched in 1985.

Isn't it important to know the truth about your history? Why should this chapter of Argentina's history be swept under the rug? In countries like the US and UK there is increasing pressure to include past injustices in the teaching of history and as subjects for TV and cinema.

 

[mc kenna]

Isn't it important to know the truth about your history? Why should this chapter of Argentina's history be swept under the rug? In countries like the US and UK there is increasing pressure to include past injustices in the teaching of history and as subjects for TV and cinema.

Just to give you an idea about the argentinian thought process, nestor took down the portraits of the the de facto presidents from 76 to 83, like that never happened. These idiots can't cope with what happened 40 years ago and you expect them to recognize that there was slavery in this wonderful peace loving human rights peronist country?