"Argentines risking all..." Associated Press

[davonz]

One of the big reasons i havent bought property here is that locals had told me it very hard to get your money out of the country again, and there is so many stops along the way where a percentage it taken out that you lose alot.

 

[Napoleon]

This article appeared yesterday in the local paper here in the States. My [way past retirement] mother tore the article out of the paper and showed it to me. She then asked if maybe I thought that it was time that I came home.

She doesn't even know about me getting held up at gun point two years ago or how often crimes are reported on this website.

I just can't understand how the country/politicians can actively keep the country in the mid to lower 2nd World. (Some things in the 1st World, but LOTS of things in the 3rd.)

 

[Davidglen77]

What happened in La Plata to that unfortunate young woman is truly sad and horrible. I don't wish such a fate even on an enemy. However, if you think going to another place to aviod crime, especially any city as large and populous as Buenos Aires, no matter where it is in the world you are just plain wrong. I was born and raised in New York City, lived through the decay and war-like conditions, crime, blight - you name it. Yes it did improve slowly beginning in the 1990s, however crime is part of society, no way around it. I don't think it's much worse in Buenos Aires than in a lot of other american cities, actually from MY experience it's better. Try going through some neighborhoods in New York like Bushwick, sections of the south bronx and even places in Upstate New York like downtown Albany and New Jersey such as Camden. Those are some scary places.......thanks I will stay here and just do as I always have, keep my eyes open, don't go to presumably dangerous places.

 

[emilyr]

I disagree, though, Davidglen77, that this article is taking things out of context--at least not anymore than the Argentine press and the Argentine federal legislative body has. THIS EVENING, they are going to be debating measures they can take to counter motochorros, surely with an eye on their role in many salideras. TODAY, diputados were debating what to do about salideras. And as a barometer of its public interest factor, it has made news scandal status this week because diputados at the top of the week failed to make quorum for the debate. There's a lot of debate that doesn't make the news, and much less the TV news! And while the news here tends to be sensationalist (caso Pomar, anyone?), the several daily salideras they report on are real. Just this week an ARMORED CAR was held up and successfully robbed.

The sad Piparo case generated public outrage and political pressure to this issue, but it is not new problem. This article from October 2009 in Clarin states there were almost 3,500 salideras bancarias in the 9 previous months!
"En nueve meses hubo casi 3.500 salideras bancarias" from October 18, 2009.
http://edant.clarin.com/diario/2009/10/18/policiales/g-02021297.htm

While I am not an alarmist about a lot of the crime we see on here that are common in big cities all over the world, I think this particular kind of crime, salideras, is not something you would often see in big cities in the US or Europe. Its cause is not just the poverty that motivates other kinds of theft, but also that people need cash for transactions because it’s often the most “efficient” way to get things done.

The title may sound sensationalist, “Argentines risking all...” Still, I think after watching all the recent coverage due to the Piparo case, many Argentines might feel they are “risking all” nowadays when withdrawing thousands of pesos.

 

[Rabel]

I agree completly but I will add something, argentine politicians are a direct reflection of the argentine people, do not forget they are elected by the people and there are always betters and worse. We are (us the argentines) far, very, to recognize this. If we do it we should change and that's what we don't want to.

and all they say is "Yo, argentino."

It will never change so long as no one here feels she/he is responsible for this mess.

Poverty is the overarching problem in Argentina, and sadly it is THE political tool. Without poverty, the politicians here couldn't go out to the villas and buy off the poor folks with a pancho or a few monedas for the train. Thus, you'll never see any serious policies to eradicate poverty.

And poverty, my friends, is why there is so much crime in Buenos Aires. If people had legitimate opportunities to make a decent living without slaving away like animals, they'd probably take them. But let's face it, it's much easier to be a motochorro or a pickpocket in this country. Why work for 50 hours (or more) a week, when you can shoot someone in the face and bank a year's salary? It's a dirty job, but hey, yo, argentino.

 

[citygirl]

I disagree on several points. And I am a taxpayer, business owner and I have bought property here.

First "taxes eat up 65 percent of the money people do declare". How is this calculated?

I have paid taxes here for 3 years and have never paid 65%.
I pay ingresos brutos, which are 3% of the price of purchased goods.
IVA, which is 21% of the difference between the price I paid for the goods and the price I sell them at.
And then ganancias, which are 35% of any profit after deducting ALL of my costs for running my business and ALSO any IVA I pay on any purchases or services is deducted from what I owe.
When you do the numbers, it's about 30% TOTAL of my income going to taxes. It's less then I paid in New York, where I got about 39% deducted from my paycheck each pay period and I paid almost $1,000 U$D property taxes PER MONTH on a 2 bedroom apartment a little larger than the one I have here. My property taxes (ABL) here are $89 PESOS every 2 months
So actually I pay less taxes here.

Yes bank fees here are higher, and the impuesto al cheque which is going to be eliminated in the next year or so are above and beyond reasonable. However I don't ever remember being able to use my bank issued credit card to get 20% off (like I get here) my supermarket purchases at Gristede´s, D'agostino or Zabar's (you New Yorkers will identify with these stores). So actually I think financially I'm ahead of the game here.

Okay but you don't talk about the costs of payroll taxes for your employees (if you have them.) Social security contributions? Labor risk insurance? Cost of doing business?(for example, my biz model is different and I receive payments from overseas. I've had one payment witheld in the Central Bank for several months now. I don't have access to that capital and there is a cost associated with that). Severance payments?

Do you also pay personal income tax here? That can be up to 35% of your income.

And then there are property taxes. Stamp taxes. Bank fees and taxes.

I don't know where they got the 65% number but if you start factoring in all the taxes - it wouldn't be hard to get there.

 

[gouchobob]

Okay but you don't talk about the costs of payroll taxes for your employees (if you have them.) Social security contributions? Labor risk insurance? Cost of doing business?(for example, my biz model is different and I receive payments from overseas. I've had one payment witheld in the Central Bank for several months now. I don't have access to that capital and there is a cost associated with that). Severance payments?

Do you also pay personal income tax here? That can be up to 35% of your income.

And then there are property taxes. Stamp taxes. Bank fees and taxes.

I don't know where they got the 65% number but if you start factoring in all the taxes - it wouldn't be hard to get there.

You are correct there are a lot of taxes in Argentina. The following lists Argentina as 8th highest, France being number one. I think in France the people get good health care, pensions, and public education in exchange for their tax dollars. It seems doubtful that Argentina taxpayers are getting fair value for their money.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/tax_burden_country_ranks_2009.html