Argentne Citizenship: A Good Reason Not To Do It

[Crema Americana]

A citizenship/ a 2nd/3rd passport is one of the most useful things you can get yourself in your lifetime..much more useful than saving 10-50K US$ in taxes. Those who are eligible for Argentine citizenship and opting not to take it, are in IMHO, the most unenlightened dunderheads.

What's so great about having Argentine citizenship?

I've given citizenship thought, but honestly I don't think I'd gain anything from it. A US passport gets me everywhere I'd want to go. If life becomes too difficult for permanent residents, then I probably wouldn't want to live here anyway. Given Argentina's history with dictators, populists, and economic crashes with heavy handed controls... I'd rather not be tied to the country for life.

 

[ElQueso]

It's not necessarily the Argentina citizenship that's great, but rather the other passport and Argentina being relatively easy to get such.

For example, you can't get (or at best is very difficult) a bank account in Uruguay as a US citizen thanks to the wonderful pressure that wonderful government has put on the rest of the world. You can draw your own conclusions to why someone would want a bank account in Uruguay (some reasonable and some that many people see as nefarious) and many other things that a second (or third, etc) passport can get one, but I won't go into those here

 

[Davidglen77]

If you live here for more than 6 months a year in any given financial year, you are due to pay taxes on your world income. This holds good irrespective of whether you are a tourist, a temporary resident, a permanent resident or a citizen. Whether you do it or not in reality, is really is your problem but the fact is that if one choses not to, one is cheating the government, as you become a tax resident after 185 days in a financial year in Argentina.

On other hand, if you are a US resident or citizen any where in the world, you jolly well declare all your accounts, your assets worldwide and pay the applicable taxes and most of the US residents or citizens jolly well do it else you are in big trouble.[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]It does not matter whether or not you reside in a foreign country if you are a USA Citizen. Unless the IRC specifically exempts you, every USA Citizen is required by law to file a return. Whether or not you pay tax to Uncle Sam, depends on a number of factors; however, you still must file a return. Should every US citizen living abroad permanently renounce his citizenship? What a headache after all, to file returns year after year![/background]

No country wants you to avoid taxes. The 35 countries in the list will be in cahoots with each other and will help the other to fix the noose on the necks of the defaulters.Why just blame Argentina.

Just today, in one of countries ( amongst the 35 listed), where I am a permanent resident and hold a bank account, they blocked my account because I failed to send them my KYC details despite their repeated mails. As soon as my account was frozen, I had no choice but to send them details with proof of every question they asked!

A citizenship/ a 2nd/3rd passport is one of the most useful things you can get yourself in your lifetime..much more useful than saving 10-50K US$ in taxes. Those who are eligible for Argentine citizenship and opting not to take it, are in IMHO, the most unenlightened dunderheads.

You are WRONG and using this forum to try and get new clients for your law firm. I have several friends here that have come to work at companies and had "residencia temporaria" and never obtainted permanent residency. They had no problem when they left Argentina to move their things and money back home. They were NOT responsible for paying asset tax on their properties in their home countries to AFIP. That is ridiculous! Do you think corporate executives would come to work here if they had to pay "bienes personales" tax on their home and car in the USA?? You are WRONG. However if you are a permanent resident you DO have to pay or at least are supposed to pay all taxes on your worldwide assets to AFIP. Another crazy idea.

Again for those of you who are planning on living here forever by all means get citizenship or permanent residency here, but if you plan to leave and want to take what you rightfully earned with you DON'T DO IT! Don't believe any lawyers here they will tell you whatever to earn a fee!

 

[Ceviche]

You are WRONG and using this forum to try and get new clients for your law firm.

Ridiculous! I don't own a law firm. I am a businessman who lives for the sole purpose of leisure ( read - women) in Argentina.

However, topic of 2nd and 3rd passports is beyond the comprehension of people on this forum.

I guess everyone is entitled to voice their opinion here, and so are you and me.

 

[oksanache]

A comment and correction in regards to ElQuesos´s post: it is very easy to open a bank account in Uruguay with an american (or any, for that matter, passport) I just did it a month ago, with a $$ 1,000 and no hassle

 

[ElQueso]

A comment and correction in regards to ElQuesos´s post: it is very easy to open a bank account in Uruguay with an american (or any, for that matter, passport) I just did it a month ago, with a $$ 1,000 and no hassle

Interesting, they've turned down 4 different guys I know who have tried, stating specifically that it was the US passport that they balked at. Perhaps it was the banks they used.

 

[el_expatriado]

I think having a second passport and a second citizenship is a big plus. It has nothing to do with taxes though. With the exception fo the United States taxes are based on residency, not citizenship. Once you stop living in a country you stop paying taxes there, so someone who is living in Argentina is not going to pay more taxes by becoming a citizen. On they other hand you'll be able to travel to Brazil, Russia, Cuba, etc., and most other countries that charge reciprocity fees to US citizens or countries that require visas from US citizens or are on the US "do not travel" list.

Of course I am a libertarian and I believe very much in the concept of individual sovereignty. I like the idea that no single government has power over me and my travel plans. And the Argentina passport is a great passport to have. They are usually officially neural in most international conflicts. It is a peaceful country that hasn't been to war under a democratic government. You can get just about anywhere with an Argentine passport. And for the places you can't get with the Argentine passport, I have my US passport.

I just recently travelled to Russia and I had to do an extended questionnaire for US citizens, pay about $200, and lose two days going to the Russian embassy here in Buenos Aires. My wife, who is Argentine, just showed up in Russia -- no paperwork needed.

 

[Crema Americana]

With citizenship (and passports) there are definitely advantages and extra rights that one has. However citizenship also comes with responsibilities and obligations... you have to weigh them carefully before making a decision.

And just because these countries don't have a US style tax system doesn't mean that one day they won't. You have to be willing to take on that risk or possible financial responsibility - or skirt the law. Tax laws can change.
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/07/07/argentina-ends-double-taxing-treaty-with-chile-which-was-running-since-1976

 

[citygirl]

You are WRONG and using this forum to try and get new clients for your law firm. I have several friends here that have come to work at companies and had "residencia temporaria" and never obtainted permanent residency. They had no problem when they left Argentina to move their things and money back home. They were NOT responsible for paying asset tax on their properties in their home countries to AFIP. That is ridiculous! Do you think corporate executives would come to work here if they had to pay "bienes personales" tax on their home and car in the USA?? You are WRONG. However if you are a permanent resident you DO have to pay or at least are supposed to pay all taxes on your worldwide assets to AFIP. Another crazy idea.

Again for those of you who are planning on living here forever by all means get citizenship or permanent residency here, but if you plan to leave and want to take what you rightfully earned with you DON'T DO IT! Don't believe any lawyers here they will tell you whatever to earn a fee!

Not accurate actually. Ceviche is not wrong.

Yes, you are supposed to pay taxes on your worldwide income/assets if you are a resident of Argentina. And everyone who is in Argentina for more than 180 days IS considered a resident for tax purposes. Has nothing to so with whether you're a tourist for 181 days, have temporary or have permanent residency.

Now, AFIP doesn't really have any way to find that information out, esp for those that are here as tourists and in fact, even if you wanted to, if you're not a resident, you can't file taxes BUT that doesn't negate the fact that any one of us here for 181 days a year should be declaring taxes according to the law as its written.

I don't disagree however that there is almost no legal/white way to get your money out of the country and citizenship can be more of a headache than its worth for many people.

 

[Jaredberryman]

I would just like to point out to everyone that if you are married to an Argentine citizen and have permanent residency, you can get an Argentine passport without Argentine citizenship. You may not change back to your US passport when you travel, but you can use that passport to go to Mercosur countries (and countries like Russia) and back to Argentina, as long as during your trip you don't switch around passports. Or so it says when I last got my daughter's Argentine passport made on a sign outside of the police department (It could have changed now for all I know!!!!)

For me, I might be able to get Argentine citizenship, but the only right that would grant me that I don't already have is to vote in national elections (supposedly I can vote in local elections, but I've yet to test this theory after living in Argentina for 7 years). I haven't yet gotten my Argentine passport, but that's just due to a lack of time. So for me, getting my citizenship at this point is not all that important, because it would be a very high investment on time and lots of headaches, just so I could go and vote. And even then, it takes a while for your name to show up on voter lists...

I don't think citizenship necessarily has much to do with taxes either--it's where you live. If you are employed in Argentina, you'll have to pay taxes in Argentina but have residency in Argentina, and you can claim a discount on your income taxes up to 80,000 USD. If you make more than that, you have to pay income tax on that money in the US, even though you reside in Argentina.

If you own a business in Argentina, try to see if you can stick with monotributo somehow. If you have an online job or are a contractor and reside in Argentina but work in the US, just file all your taxes in the U.S. and list yourself as a resident of the U.S. on your taxes. It will save you lots of hassles in the long run I think.

I hope this post has been somewhat useful to all of you.