Baby Boomers in BA

steveinbsas

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steveinbsas said:
Wow, Stan, I actually had you in mind when I used the the term naysayers. Back it up with numbers regarding the cost of living here if you can Stan, especially the rate of utilities compared to the US (even with recent increases)

Wallow in your own misery if you must, but I know how cheap it (still) is to live here. Perhaps you just don't know how to economize.

When I have posted about the job market here I have been very negative, but I am not the kind of person who ever looks for jobs. Victoria did not ask about jobs, anyway.

From your previous posts, it does sound like you paid too much for some things here, especially bribes (since the day of may arrival I have paid none).

I have a much higher standard of living in Argentina than I did in Mexico or the US...for less money....and I have the numbers to prove it.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to re-emphasize that fact.
 

Stanexpat

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Actually, Steve you are the most prolific poster on this site, 574 and counting, apparently you have a lot of time on your hands.

The only reason I posted this time is my concern regarding information you were giving a lady that sounds like is going through tough times. I think it is irresponsible for you to perpetuate the low COL living fantasy that many people still have. This lady could be very disappointed and angry if she actually comes to Argentina. Perhaps you should post your B.A. address so that people who come to Argentina based on your advice will know where to go to lodge complaints.

The correct information for you to provide regarding COL in Argentina is that it was cheap for a time after the financial collapse back in 2001. More recently the country has experienced 20-30 inflation for several years. Today the COL in B.A. is above the average cost in the U.S. If the inflation continues the COL in B.A. will be substantially more than the average in the U.S.

By the way my wife has been in Argentina for the last month and is shocked how much prices have increased since we left in August.
 

HotYogaTeacher

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Hey Victoria. Not everyone who doesn't love BsAs is a "whiner".
A. there are lots of older people here, especially the ones who are permanent and own property. I know people from 30 desde 70 living here at least part time on a permanent basis.
B. it is NOT cheaper to live here than in Mexico and for you, coming from the Twin Cities, it might be more expensive, depending on how you live. I am from San Diego and living here, with a much lower standard of living than I was accustomed to at home is just as expensive. I definitely do not save money here and my lifestyle is not as nice as it was in San Diego.

I don't know Steve personally and don't know what he looks like, but I definitely stand out here. Everyone knows I'm not from here, and, that is fine. No one treats me badly, but they do stare. I am very careful with my bag in public, but I would be in the states too in a very big city.

I do know Tom and Nancy, super nice people and good contacts for certain. This website is a great forum for information. Don't take anything anyone says at face value though, because they each see the world through their own lens, which is never going to be exactly the same as yours. I know people who love living here. I also know many people who hate it. I have friends who have very mixed feelings about it and a great deal of that has to do with what level of involvement they have in the actual day to day life of the city.

For me the weather here is awful but for someone from where you've lived it will be heavenly. Let us all know when and if you arrive. Jimmy and I will have you over. We will be selling our place, which is the most amazing apartment in the city in my opinion, sometime in the next year, and heading back to the states. The only advice I will give is to decide what kind of an experience you want to have and choose your process accordingly. Life here is dependent on many things. It can be lonely for an American woman living on her own here. I know many and often they are unhappy and lonely because they don't understand the men down here and the men don't really see them as potential partners but as someone to take advantage of. Many, if not most, of the expats I know in the over 40 category are couples or gay men. Lesbians are the Invisible People here and unmarried women over 40 just don't have the social opportunities that younger women have. The few straight expat men I know down here all date Portenas because they are easier in some ways, or because they are different or whatever...

I wish you luck in whatever you decide. You can check out my blog here:
www.esplendorymiseria.com

Suerte
 

perry

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All great points and some I do agree with Hot Yoga Teachers take on prices here which are as expensive as USA cities . Saying that it is imho a beautiful city with great weather and excellent cultural life. Peoples realities are shaped differently and for some Buenos Aires is not what they are looking for but for others here like me I love this city more than ever .

Before you make the move it is best to spend three months here and see if it what you are looking for .
 

steveinbsas

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Stanexpat said:
Actually, Steve you are the most prolific poster on this site, 574 and counting, apparently you have a lot of time on your hands.

The only reason I posted this time is my concern regarding information you were giving a lady that sounds like is going through tough times. I think it is irresponsible for you to perpetuate the low COL living fantasy that many people still have. This lady could be very disappointed and angry if she actually comes to Argentina. Perhaps you should post your B.A. address so that people who come to Argentina based on your advice will know where to go to lodge complaints.

The correct information for you to provide regarding COL in Argentina is that it was cheap for a time after the financial collapse back in 2001. More recently the country has experienced 20-30 inflation for several years. Today the COL in B.A. is above the average cost in the U.S. If the inflation continues the COL in B.A. will be substantially more than the average in the U.S.

By the way my wife has been in Argentina for the last month and is shocked how much prices have increased since we left in August.


Stanexpat said:
Actually, Steve you are the most prolific poster on this site, 574 and counting, apparently you have a lot of time on your hands.

Actually, Stan, Bigbadwolf is the most prolific poster on this site. But what difference does the number of my posts make, anyway? Is there any significance in the fact that you have posted 330 times. The only inference I can make is that I have twice as much to say as you do. I have spent a great deal of time trying to warn those who have never visited BA NOT to move here without coming here at least once to check it out. I know I have prevented a few from doing so.

Stanexpat said:
The only reason I posted this time is my concern regarding information you were giving a lady that sounds like is going through tough times. I think it is irresponsible for you to perpetuate the low COL living fantasy that many people still have. This lady could be very disappointed and angry if she actually comes to Argentina. Perhaps you should post your B.A. address so that people who come to Argentina based on your advice will know where to go to lodge complaints.

Victoria has visited BA before and has friends here. Perhaps you should read the posts you refer to more closely. I will be happy to meet her when she arrives. If she is angry, she can give me a good (BA) spanking.

Stanexpat said:
The correct information for you to provide regarding COL in Argentina is that it was cheap for a time after the financial collapse back in 2001. More recently the country has experienced 20-30 inflation for several years.

Some things were really cheap here a couple years ago: a liter of Stella Artois was only a dollar a liter (now it's almost $1.50). A small ready to bake cheese pizza was three pesos. Now they're six. Roast beef is still $8.95 pesos per kilo, and if you're really desperate enough, a 332 gram can of Pan de Carne (SPAM) is price controlled at $2.50 pesos.

Stanexpat said:
Today the COL in B.A. is above the average cost in the U.S. If the inflation continues the COL in B.A. will be substantially more than the average in the U.S.

There are three words that should make you rethink that statement: Economic Recovery Act.

You may see inflation like you have never seen before...even in the 70's.

Besides, I don't care about averages! BA is not an average city. I grew up in an average city and went to college in an average town (both in Illinois). Then I moved to Park City and I also lived in North San Diego County and Chicago prior to moving to Sayulita, Mexico in 2000. I never could afford to live in NYC, not that I would have even if I had the dinero. I love San Francisco, but I can't afford to live there, either. At least I can spend weeks at a time in either city thanks to the home exchange. I couldn't do that with a home in Peoria.

Anyway, to provide some facts, I just looked at my utility bills from Mexico (2005-2006). I'm sure they would be higher today. I didn't save any from the eight years in Chicago (1993-2000), but do I remember that I was paying a lot less in Mexcio!

Telephone (basic service): $35 Dollars per month.

Electricity: $80-$135 Dollars per month (and I only used one a/c in the house...in my bedroom...and only (using a timer) to cool it enough to fall asleep.

LP gas was delivered by truck and I was paying $80 every other month in 2006 (up from $60 in 2005). At the new rate here, I expect to pay $70 pesos (about $20 dollars) every other month.

In Argentina I am now paying $35 Dollars per month for electricity (at the new rates and using more than ever).

My basic phone service in BA is about $8 dollars per month.

The cost of living here, even with the recent increases in utilities is still far less than in any place I would remotely consider living in the US, especially if you are a property owner and factor in taxes (at least on properties that "cost" less than $300,000 pesos).

Here the real estate taxes on a property below that threshold are ZERO.

Yes, the ABL (city tax) increased threefold last year in Recoleta, but not as much in most other areas of the city. The new total is well under $200 dollars per year, and I have clean streets to show for it (and usually a policeman in almost every block near my place).

Stanexpat said:
By the way my wife has been in Argentina for the last month and is shocked how much prices have increased since we left in August.


It would be nice if you provided some numbers for a change.
 

Stanexpat

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Let's look at what people actually spend money on living day to day.

Housing- Apartments there aren't cheap and you can do better in many areas of the U.S. today. Prices here are falling. The economy started going south there towards the end of 2008. Judging by the number of ads for people trying to rent their units there demand is down, it's more than likely prices are falling now as well. But housing in the U.S. is now becoming a far better bargain than there.

Health Care- Big advantage to Argentina until the boomers hit 65. At that point medicare kicks in and makes the U.S. more affordable.

Transportation- Argentina has a good network of public transportation and it's cheap as long as you live in the city. However if you want to own a car there it's much more expensive than in the U.S.

Food- No big difference today.

Utilities- Big advantage today in Argentina but is eroding quickly as the government withdraws its subsidies.

Other- Any manufactured goods cost more and some cases much more in Argentina than elsewhere. Often whats on offer there is of inferior quality.
This includes electronics and major appliances. Clothing in the U.S. is of better quality and lower prices.

Other things to consider are return trips to the states once or twice a year to visit friends and family which can be anywhere from $800-$1500 depending on the time of year and your destination.

Looking at what people actually spend money on I would say the COL there today is higher than the U.S. I think most people visiting will figure this out fairly quickly. I doubt there will be any big stampede of people from the states to Argentina now or in the future.

Your point that the U.S. is going to enter a period of high inflation could be true some point in the future but today prices are falling and deflation is actually a bigger issue. But if high inflation does occur the dollar would most likely be devalued possibly even against the peso which make living there even more expensive(go ask the Brits about the Pound over the last few months).

The wild card there of course is what is the government going to do in the future and what impact it will have on real estate investments and the economy in general. With the bandits running the place anything is possible.

Anyone considering a move to Argentina should not do so with the expectation that the cost of life will be less today or anytime in the near future. You suggesting otherwise is just plain wrong.
 

TomAtAlki

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This dead horse has been beaten way too many times but I'm going to take one more whack at it.

I live in Seattle and have been to BA several times in the last year.

BA is much cheaper than any real city in the US. Podunk, Idaho may be equal but I doubt it.

When I go out to dinner here I spend more on a bottle of cheap wine ($30) than I spend on a dinner with wine for 2 in BA. The daily cost of life is significantly cheaper. Utilities, taxes, food, transportation.. all cheaper. Real Estate....much cheaper (I sell Real Estate in Seattle and you can't buy a house or condo in a good neighbor for under $300k. The one thing that surprised me was the new cost of taxis so we didn't take them except very occasionally. And it seems that nobody else was taking them either. Rows of cruising empty taxis everywhere. I expect the price to come down......But they are still half the price of a Seattle taxi.

Pericles.....when was the last time you were in the US?

However, cheap isn't everything. I do love it in BA. The city, the people, the food. And it only gets better. Last time I was down (3 weeks ago) there was significantly less dog poop on the sidewalks. Dog walkers were carrying plastic bags!!! Life is good.

Tom
 

steveinbsas

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Stanexpat said:
Let's look at what people actually spend money on living day to day.

Housing- Apartments there aren't cheap and you can do better in many areas of the U.S. today. Prices here are falling. The economy started going south there towards the end of 2008. Judging by the number of ads for people trying to rent their units there demand is down, it's more than likely prices are falling now as well. But housing in the U.S. is now becoming a far better bargain than there.

Health Care- Big advantage to Argentina until the boomers hit 65. At that point medicare kicks in and makes the U.S. more affordable.

Transportation- Argentina has a good network of public transportation and it's cheap as long as you live in the city. However if you want to own a car there it's much more expensive than in the U.S.

Food- No big difference today.

Utilities- Big advantage today in Argentina but is eroding quickly as the government withdraws its subsidies.

Other- Any manufactured goods cost more and some cases much more in Argentina than elsewhere. Often whats on offer there is of inferior quality.
This includes electronics and major appliances. Clothing in the U.S. is of better quality and lower prices.

Other things to consider are return trips to the states once or twice a year to visit friends and family which can be anywhere from $800-$1500 depending on the time of year and your destination.

Looking at what people actually spend money on I would say the COL there today is higher than the U.S. I think most people visiting will figure this out fairly quickly. I doubt there will be any big stampede of people from the states to Argentina now or in the future.

Your point that the U.S. is going to enter a period of high inflation could be true some point in the future but today prices are falling and deflation is actually a bigger issue. But if high inflation does occur the dollar would most likely be devalued possibly even against the peso which make living there even more expensive(go ask the Brits about the Pound over the last few months).

The wild card there of course is what is the government going to do in the future and what impact it will have on real estate investments and the economy in general. With the bandits running the place anything is possible.

Anyone considering a move to Argentina should not do so with the expectation that the cost of life will be less today or anytime in the near future. You suggesting otherwise is just plain wrong.


OK, Stan, "Let's look at what people actually spend money on living day to day."

Show me the numbers!
 

Stanexpat

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TomAtAlki said:
This dead horse has been beaten way too many times but I'm going to take one more whack at it.

I live in Seattle and have been to BA several times in the last year.

BA is much cheaper than any real city in the US. Podunk, Idaho may be equal but I doubt it.

When I go out to dinner here I spend more on a bottle of cheap wine ($30) than I spend on a dinner with wine for 2 in BA. The daily cost of life is significantly cheaper. Utilities, taxes, food, transportation.. all cheaper. Real Estate....much cheaper (I sell Real Estate in Seattle and you can't buy a house or condo in a good neighbor for under $300k. The one thing that surprised me was the new cost of taxis so we didn't take them except very occasionally. And it seems that nobody else was taking them either. Rows of cruising empty taxis everywhere. I expect the price to come down......But they are still half the price of a Seattle taxi.

Pericles.....when was the last time you were in the US?

However, cheap isn't everything. I do love it in BA. The city, the people, the food. And it only gets better. Last time I was down (3 weeks ago) there was significantly less dog poop on the sidewalks. Dog walkers were carrying plastic bags!!! Life is good.

Tom

Tom I will have take exception on your take of real estate prices in the U.S. The cost per sq. meter kicked around this forum is 2000-3000 dollars per sq. meter. If I use the low end of the range 2K and convert it to feet it equals $185 per square foot. This is very high by U.S. standards.

I live in a suburb of Atlanta about 35 miles from downtown. Atlanta is one of the largest metro areas in the U.S. hardly Podunk U.S.A.

Just as an example a house on the street I live on (see link) is on sale for $225k, it's practically brand new very nice and 3057 square feet. That works out to $74 a square foot or less than half the low range for B.A. It a short sale but there are bargains available like this every day here. In the surrounding area for miles and miles I can buy houses, apartments, and condos all day long for $80 to $90 a square foot.

There are plenty of other very nice areas in the U.S. where you can buy anything you want for probably half what it costs in B.A.


http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/151-Bradshaw-Park-Dr-Woodstock-GA-30188/61891502_zpid/
 

steveinbsas

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Stanexpat said:
Tom I will have take exception on your take of real estate prices in the U.S. The cost per sq. meter kicked around this forum is 2000-3000 dollars per sq. meter. If I use the low end of the range 2K and convert it to feet it equals $185 per square foot. This is very high by U.S. standards.

I live in a suburb of Atlanta about 35 miles from downtown. Atlanta is one of the largest metro areas in the U.S. hardly Podunk U.S.A.

Just as an example a house on the street I live on (see link) is on sale for $225k, it's practically brand new very nice and 3057 square feet. That works out to $74 a square foot or less than half the low range for B.A. It a short sale but there are bargains available like this every day here. In the surrounding area for miles and miles I can buy houses, apartments, and condos all day long for $80 to $90 a square foot.

There are plenty of other very nice areas in the U.S. where you can buy anything you want for probably half what it costs in B.A.


http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/151-Bradshaw-Park-Dr-Woodstock-GA-30188/61891502_zpid/


Stan, when will you get the point....it isn't just cost of the real estate, its also the utilities, insurance (including health care) and taxes, not to mention the need for a car and the lack of CULTURE (in spite of what hotyogateacher feels about BA). Then there's education (if you have children) and all the other stuff.

Why do you continue to compare "other areas" of the US to BA?

I wouldn't live in any of them.

Before you reply, please remember that the name of this website is BAexpats.

It's about life here....cheaper anywhere in the US notwithstanding.

Why do you persist?

I hope you pay this much attention to your wife.
 
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