Be cautious and aware..

[Lucas]

Awareness for future trekkers is the aim here and nothing else, mind you?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

???
Right, a brutal rape has nothing to do with "criminality", just the victim's lack of common sense. She was probably wearing sexy hiking clothes too, just asking for it.

There really is a culture of blaming the victim on this board and it gets kind of tiresome.

When we talk about criminality we are talking about statics of criminality. For example, we can talk about criminality in BA city regarding the robbing to tourist with high tech cameras at subway. But we cannot talk about that regarding El Bolson because since it was founded the statics of sexual crimes was zero.

The lack of common sense is regarding to go alone in an isolated area.

The argument about "she was raped because she dressed sexy" means that the criminal had right to rape her and I am not saying that at all.

You cannot be alone in an isolated area because is very dangerous, not only because of rape, because you might have a little accident and you might need help. I have been doing high difficulty single tracks at Patagonia for the last 18 years and even I always travel alone, I usually wait for a group and I walk a little forward them. This precaution saved me 6 years ago when the current of a river drag me and I hit my head on the rocks. The people who was there rescued me and recovered my backpacks. So, yes, she was very stupid.

Did you see the movie 127 hours?

I have seen many stupid accidents during these 18 years, mainly because of people without experience at all going to Patagonia with a beach tent and once there, it freezes just before sunrise. Or they try to cross a river with a common car with all the kids inside and the river graged the car. Or a group of skinny teen girls with backpacks heavier than mine in a high difficulty track crying because they were walking for 2 days, they couldn t cook, they were freeze during the night because they didn t have the proper sleeping bags or tents and they were too tired to go one, with they feet blistered because their shoes were brand new instead of used. When I open their backpacks, they had enough food for an army and enought clothes for a fashion week. Those girls were too young, too weak, too beautifull and too naive to be in such a place. We helped them and once we reach the road we sent them back to San Martin de los Andes and I suggested them to stay in Catritre (a camping at the beach of Lakar Lake).

Regards

 

[Mitch]

I really hope that the people on this board have the intelligence NOT to blame this young lady for what happened to her. I really really HATE when people blame the victim, and that is what she is. Everybody knows that in today's world they have to take precautions WHEREVER you are, including the forest, campsite, city, you name it. Unfortunately she wasn't as careful as she could have been, but who here hasn't let down their guard at one time or another? Please let's wish this young lady a full physical and emotional recovery, and learn from this unfortunate incident. Never blame the victim of a crime, it's the WORST thing you can do for them and for you.

I feel sorry for her and I don´t make excuses for the perpatrator, but I Partially blame her for going it alone there, especially after she was warned not to.

I disagree with your blanket statement, "never blame the victim of a crime" I tried to convince an American stranger once not to wear his Rolex here and for his wife not to walk around draped in gold as she was. They laughed me off. If they got ripped off and I am assuming they did, are you asking me not to blame them?

 

[DontMindMe]

I feel sorry for her and I don´t make excuses for the perpatrator, but I Partially blame her for going it alone there, especially after she was warned not to.

I disagree with your blanket statement, "never blame the victim of a crime" I tried to convince an American stranger once not to wear his Rolex here and for his wife not to walk around draped in gold as she was. They laughed me off. If they got ripped off and I am assuming they did, are you asking me not to blame them?

I understand how you feel, because yes, okay, she was warned. Do you know how much I was warned by my students about going to Mendoza alone? Retiro is a paco den, so go there in a taxi!!! Be careful who you choose to go out with at the hostel!!! Oh, and let´s not forget the zillion Argentines who were horrified that I wanted to move to San Telmo. There will ALWAYS be someone warning a woman traveling alone about something. If we listened to everyone, we would never leave the house. I am not saying I would not take into consideration a serious warning based on past occurences, but none of us know this woman or how exactly she was warned.

 

[Mitch]

[quote name='Don'tMindMe']I understand how you feel, because yes, okay, she was warned. Do you know how much I was warned by my students about going to Mendoza alone? Retiro is a paco den, so go there in a taxi!!! Be careful who you choose to go out with at the hostel!!! Oh, and let´s not forget the zillion Argentines who were horrified that I wanted to move to San Telmo. There will ALWAYS be someone warning a woman traveling alone about something. If we listened to everyone, we would never leave the house. I am not saying I would not take into consideration a serious warning based on past occurences, but none of us know this woman or how exactly she was warned.[/quote]


I only have the knowledge of her case I read in the newspaper, which is most often little real knowledge mixed in with skewered facts. She was not my point. I was simply trying to counter a statement which I thought to be wrong, that beinng the victim is never at fault.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I only have the knowledge of her case I read in the newspaper, which is most often little real knowledge mixed in with skewered facts. She was not my point. I was simply trying to counter a statement which I thought to be wrong, that beinng the victim is never at fault.

That might be true in a criminal trial but not in life.
If you don t lock your door and a criminal get into you house during night and your wife gets raped, isn t it your fault?
Regards

 

[Napoleon]

Don't try to break into a mobile home in Oklahoma, because they don't necessarily wait for the law to get involved:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-intruder-week-babys-father-died-cancer.html

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Well, she has to ask for permission to 911, it makes no sense.
In Argentina you can shoot him without calling 911 and the judge is not even going to disturb you.

Art. 34.- No son punibles:
6) el que obrare en defensa propia o de sus derechos, siempre que concurrieren las siguientes circunstancias:
a) agresión ilegítima;
b) necesidad racional del medio empleado para impedirla o repelerla c) falta de provocación suficiente por parte del que se defiende.
Se entenderá que concurren estas circunstancias respecto de aquél que durante la noche rechazare el escalamiento o fractura de los cercados, paredes o entradas de su casa, o departamento habitado o de sus dependencias, cualquiera que sea el daño ocasionado al agresor.
7) el que obrare en defensa de la persona o derechos de otro, siempre que concurran las circunstancias a) y b) del inciso anterior y caso de haber precedido provocación suficiente por parte del agredido, la de que no haya participado en ella el tercero defensor.

 

[Napoleon]

Well, she has to ask for permission to 911, it makes no sense.
In Argentina you can shoot him without calling 911 and the judge is not even going to disturb you.

Art. 34.- No son punibles:
6) el que obrare en defensa propia o de sus derechos, siempre que concurrieren las siguientes circunstancias:
a) agresión ilegítima;
b) necesidad racional del medio empleado para impedirla o repelerla c) falta de provocación suficiente por parte del que se defiende.
Se entenderá que concurren estas circunstancias respecto de aquél que durante la noche rechazare el escalamiento o fractura de los cercados, paredes o entradas de su casa, o departamento habitado o de sus dependencias, cualquiera que sea el daño ocasionado al agresor.
7) el que obrare en defensa de la persona o derechos de otro, siempre que concurran las circunstancias a) y b) del inciso anterior y caso de haber precedido provocación suficiente por parte del agredido, la de que no haya participado en ella el tercero defensor.

You can in most states in the US as well, it's just that this is a case of an 18 year-old, recently widowed mother with a 3 month old who probably didn't even finish high school much less take a criminal law class in college. She had no idea what to do and the 9-1-1 operator basically told her that she had to wait until the made it inside the house.

I doubt most 18 year-old Argentines know Art. 34.

You've got a bit more legal training that the average teenager.

Just sayin'...

 

[sesamosinsal]

If you don t lock your door and a criminal get into you house during night and your wife gets raped, isn t it your fault?

Really?