Big Heist in Argentina

[Stanexpat]

Stan, can you elaborate why you think the pension robbery will undermine private property rights?

If your retirement savings can be seized by the government, then I would say any assets an individual owns could be at risk. This would include bank accounts, houses, or apartments. This is what I mean that this undermines property rights.

Take an extreme case like Cuba, people who had assets there in 1959 are still waiting for compensation. I think they would agree that their property rights were undermined.

 

[windy]

I don't see any threat to property rights,I think that is just scare mongering. I think perhaps a global view on the world crisses is required. In the uk most of the banks have been nationalised totally or partly in the last few months. In the us 10 major banks have collasped and the rest are being partly nationlised by massive amounts of government / taxpayers money. Pension funds around the world are being decimated by this crisses and Argentine funds are not imune to this. For example the debt of lehman bros was sold last week for 8 cents on the U$S leaving the insurance companies to pick up a tab of 355 billion$$$$$$. so if part of your pension was invested in the banking sector you have lost a small fortune. If part is in the insurance sector you are about to loose a small fortune. Comodity and oil prices are collapsing as the recession worsens so you can swipe of a few more grand of your funds.
All around the world companies are begging the governments to come to their rescue. In the states its not just the banks but the airlines and the car industry who have both seen their markets decimated by high oil prices. Both are begging the government for a banking style bail out.
Be careful what you wish for you may just get it.
Would you prefere a privatley run bankrupt pension fund with no money what so ever,or a government backed fund albeit one which obviously will pay out less than what you were falsely promised in the first place.
The rest of the world is choosing the goverment option and the people on this board up until my post at least seem to prefer to get nothing.
This is a global mess which will efect all our lives. I know its super cool and trendy to be anti Kirchner but to pretend this is not linked to the global situation is just plain silly.
Thankgod we are not following the IMF guidebook to globalization.Latin America is one of the few parts of the world not in recession.
Ps it is estimated that 1 million American families will have their homes taken from them by the banks. So much for their property rights.
In the UK this year 45,000 families will lose their homes, next year the figure is expected to be much higher.
Saludos
Windy

 

[Napoleon]

Will there not be a vote on this?

 

[criswkh]

How many Americans should have not bought a house they could not have afford? Car company's don't need to produce any more cars. There is a surplus of cars. Where is the responsible of people. The pension fund being nationalized isn't going to help. There goes my some of my savings.

 

[soulskier]

If your retirement savings can be seized by the government, then I would say any assets an individual owns could be at risk. This would include bank accounts, houses, or apartments. This is what I mean that this undermines property rights.

Take an extreme case like Cuba, people who had assets there in 1959 are still waiting for compensation. I think they would agree that their property rights were undermined.

Stan, would you say this could happen in the States, based upon the current status of retirement funds?

 

[Stanexpat]

Stan, would you say this could happen in the States, based upon the current status of retirement funds?

No, this is a desperate final move by the government there to stave off another debt default.

 

[Stanexpat]

Wendy, I think you are completely wrong on all your points. This move by the government there is just a simple theft of retirement savings by a totally corrupt and incompetent government. The pension funds in question since their inception since 1994 returned an average of over 13% to the savers. What they are going to get now is some government bonds that will be defaulted on in a year or two. What they will end up with at retirement nobody knows.

This severely undermines property rights as the following from the NYT states:

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/argentina-nationalizes-30-billion-in-private-pensions/

 

[soulskier]

Stan, still not seeing how property rights are being undermined. Thanks in advance for explaining further.

 

[Stanexpat]

Stan, still not seeing how property rights are being undermined. Thanks in advance for explaining further.

If seizure of your personal retirement funds doesn't qualify as undermining property rights what does? I don't see how this could be any clearer.

 

[igor]

If seizure of your personal retirement funds doesn't qualify as undermining property rights what does? I don't see how this could be any clearer.

I believe, people still own their retirement funds, so where is the seizure? Social Security Administration in the States is a US government agency. Does it steal pension money from poor Americans?