Big Heist in Argentina

[tangobob]

Quoting Pericles Many people living in the USA and Europe will wake up soon and find that all their pension funds are finished.

Sorry you are a bit late on this one, Many people living in the USA and Europe already have woken up to find that their pension funds are finished. Remeber Maxwell. But even today it is still happening, I am asked almost monthly for more money to bail out our fund.
In saying that we had a nationalised pension fund in the 70s, Anybody remember Graduated pensions? Well if you paid into that you will not see your money again. But the government not happy with this lump, annually take billions out of private pension funds.

So do not believe that it only happens in Argentina.

 

[Stanexpat]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangobob
Some realism is needed here. In Great? Britain pension schemes have been destroyed, in the name of free enterprise.
Most final salary schemes are now closed, and the the UK government steals billions each year from those that are left.
I think you will find that as most schemes ( US and UK ) hold their savings in equities, and that the collapse of stock prices will mean all of us (who are still investing in pension schemes) are going to be worse off.

Very well said Tangobob and I for the life cannot understand the hysteria of some on this forum . I for one fully support the decisions of Christina Fernandez Kirchner

Privatising the Pension Funds 14 years ago has been a failed experiment in Argentina and the government has choosen to act to rescue workers and pènsioners . Many people living in the USA and Europe will wake up soon and find that all their pension funds are finished.

How come there was not such an outcry when the USA and European government have pledged trillions of dollars to rescue banks and corrupt businesses . What has happened on Wall Street is a absolute disgrace and many here have not condemmend their ruthless behaviour.

Well, I'm glad somebody still supports her, there aren't many left. Actually the annual return on the private pension plans was quite good and averaged over 13% since 1994, hardly a failed experiment. The only failed experiment are the K's which are going down. The only question is when and whether they take the rest of Argentina with them.

We could discuss the failings of wall street but it still wouldn't change the nature of this wholesale scheme to defraud the retirement savers in Argentina.

 

[jedard]

My God, when did you pull your head out of the sand?
This recent decision to take hold of a private pension fund cannot be seen as anything less than a full blooded theft.
If they ever tried this in Canada a civil unrest would take place. Why don't you take a look at what the word private really stands for.
In the first place this government gave them this tool to invest because their damn National Pension Plan was and still is a pure piece dung ( S--T ).

To argue that this is going it help the little guy is totally absurd! Just take a look at what a teacher takes home after 25 years in a class room where she or he is a teacher, parent, doctor, lawyer, nurse etc.
And most important is this. The 29 Billion dollars are going to be use exclusively to pay down borrowed funds such as the worthless bonds out there. Who created this financial mess here in the first place. ANSWER, past governments and especially the Kirshners.
This country cannot even beg or borrow two cents in todays market without having to pay enormous interest rates.

If your going to debate this issue you need to get the facts as they are representative of the whole situation.
I wonder how you would react if they came along and took your house, your car or worse every penny you have
This is something my old pal Fidel would do or more like Chavez will do one day.

Very well said Tangobob and I for the life cannot understand the hysteria of some on this forum . I for one fully support the decisions of Christina Fernandez Kirchner

Privatising the Pension Funds 14 years ago has been a failed experiment in Argentina and the government has choosen to act to rescue workers and pènsioners . Many people living in the USA and Europe will wake up soon and find that all their pension funds are finished.

How come there was not such an outcry when the USA and European government have pledged trillions of dollars to rescue banks and corrupt businesses . What has happened on Wall Street is a absolute disgrace and many here have not condemmend their ruthless behaviour.

 

[soulskier]

I like that the forum is sharing views on this one. Keep the dialogue going.

 

[perry]

Reaf this letter on another forum and thought it was well written
> have you read ´The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism´
by Naomi
> Klein.
> i think it is full of information on how not to control an economy. the
> financial history of argentina is discussed in some depth, including how
> this countries debt increased with Washington's insistence of open
borders
> and denationalising industries, an idea that was so abhorrent to
part of the
> main population that those same economic plans had to be put in
place with a
> prolonged shock, physical force. i seem to remember the
privatisations that
> occured in the early 1990´s were also part of stringent conditions
applied
> to imf/world bank loans.
>
> i´m not saying the argentine government is doing things the right
way now. i
> am saying that your criticism of nationalized industries and agentina
> controlling its borders sounds like its from the imf and the world banks
> (washingtons) guide book.
>
> just saying. i´m open to discussion.

 

[nikad]

Let´s not forget that the same people that are claiming that this is a measure to protect our future, are the same ones that were for teh private system 14 years ago, yes, NK included. I do not trust the people that deposited illegally the funds of the province of Santa Cruz in a Swiss bank account, and after years, they fail to say where the money ( and the interests! ) are. I am a grown up and I want to be able to decide where it is safe to put my money, I do not need anybody deciding for me.

 

[RWS]

Hear, hear, Nikad!

 

[perry]

Let´s not forget that the same people that are claiming that this is a measure to protect our future, are the same ones that were for teh private system 14 years ago, yes, NK included. I do not trust the people that deposited illegally the funds of the province of Santa Cruz in a Swiss bank account, and after years, they fail to say where the money ( and the interests! ) are. I am a grown up and I want to be able to decide where it is safe to put my money, I do not need anybody deciding for me.

This I fully agree is wrong and should be deplored . Any monies earnt while in office should be fully declared for the public to see where it is. There must be more transparency of all public funds.

 

[nikad]

This I fully agree is wrong and should be deplored . Any monies earnt while in office should be fully declared for the public to see where it is. There must be more transparency of all public funds.

So, even when I believe changes or a better regulation on the private retirement system are in order, I do not trust the people executing this plan: it makes me feel extremely insecure about my funds, and also about private property in general. Many of the supporters of this administration, congressmen, etc where behind the scenes decades ago voting for the exact same opposite. And now they are using the excuse of the global financial crisis to do this...but hey, I though it was " the others " the ones that had problems, not us... at least that is what CK said a few weeks ago, she also said it was the US who needed a plan B and not us.
The government discourse is intelligible and makes sense, but their current and past actions show something different. Pffft I am soooo mad! LOL

 

[soulskier]

As a gringo who has lived in this country since 2005 and been warned by Argies that the country implodes every 7-10 years, this is right on par. Between the Queen's policies on El Campo, the new entrance fee for foreigners, the zona de seguridad real estate law, and now this pension takeover, I am pretty convinced this is part of the famous cycle I have been hearing about.