BsAs ranked 13th in AskMen.com's Top 29 Cities to Live In

[criswkh]

I find people speak more English in Capital Federal, but if you live outside "tourist/expat" areas get use to Catellano. If you are bringing in money other than pesos than BA would be cheap, but if you live off of pesos inflation is pain. As for the fit physiques of the people, I don't know of any other country besides Argentina, that if your BMI is high you can get your Gastric Bypass Surgery and other "thinning surgery"paid for through insurance. Like Steve, we moved from Chicago. I would not peg Chicago as #1 city to live in...high cost of living, pot holes, taxes, Daley's homies, high cost of a ticket to show or sports event, property tax of $6,000 yr on a 1000 sq ft. condo, and crime is going up. I lost four people this year alone to violence. I would like to know how their staticial formula worked for the rankings.

 

[balle13112]

Interesting but it is still the usual hype. What do they talk about? Low cost of living (not true), fit physiques of the people (that is up to interpretation), Spanish language not necessary (absolutely not true), European flair (that is an exaggeration). The reality is far from the travel fantasy.

I kinda agree with RC. Low cost of living for buying or renting property. Dining out is abit cheaper than in most US major cities but I feel the quality of the food and dining experience is better in the US. Groceries are at par to the US. Domestic help is very afforable and attainable in BA. Women here are gorgeous, no comment on American women!! I agree the social life would be easier and more enriching if you knew Spanish but you can get by without knowing any Spanish - only in BA. European flair is an exaggeration, some of the architecture in Recoleta (around Alvear) may give the impression of a European city.

 

[Napoleon]

I kinda agree with RC. Low cost of living for buying or renting property. Dining out is abit cheaper than in most US major cities but I feel the quality of the food and dining experience is better in the US.

Umm... yeah. The quality (or lack there of) of the food part of the "dining experience" has been addressed ad nauseum on this board. [Insert Country Name HERE] has better tasting food than here. We get it.

Groceries are at par to the US.

Maybe in "Hooterville" (where the cast of "Green Acres" shops at Sam's grocery store) the prices are the same, but not in any town I've seen. For locals the dent in the wallet is comparatively the same or slightly worse, but for foreigners the grocery stores are CHEAP!

European flair is an exaggeration, some of the architecture in Recoleta (around Alvear) may give the impression of a European city.

You don't have to be on Alvear to see European Architecture. Walk from the Casa Rosada to the Congreso some day and report back here on what you see. And if you happen to drive along Av. 9 de Julio, tell me what continent you would think you were in if you only saw the Teatro Colon.

The neighborhoods of Retiro (near San Martin Plaza), the Microcenter along its narrow streets, Barrio Norte, Barrio Parque, Recoleta, Palermo, Once, San Telmo, Montserrat... You can see European influenced architecture ALL OVER THIS CITY! At least the parts that were heavily developed before the 1930s... and those are the only parts that most tourists ever see.


Occasionally it is worth the effort to look at things with a different perspective. Try to remember your first impressions of things, look at something and think about what a friend mentioned to you or what you overheard strangers talking about. Simply looking at things as they pertain to you can really close off other ideas, experiences, opinions.

PS-I don't live on Alvear street, but I live in a building with one of those elevators that you can see into from all four sides as it goes up and down in the middle of the staircase. And American girl who lived here for 9 months came back and visited after I had moved into this building and she was blown away by my building... and it's not in that great of a neighborhood. But occasionally she'll comment that if/when she moves back, she wants to live in my building. And I've never seen an building like it in the States. (Through there are probably a small handful like it in NYC, Boston, Chicago, DC, Philly, and a few other cities.)

 

[Recoleta Carolina]

I find people speak more English in Capital Federal, but if you live outside "tourist/expat" areas get use to Catellano. If you are bringing in money other than pesos than BA would be cheap, but if you live off of pesos inflation is pain. As for the fit physiques of the people, I don't know of any other country besides Argentina, that if your BMI is high you can get your Gastric Bypass Surgery and other "thinning surgery"paid for through insurance. Like Steve, we moved from Chicago. I would not peg Chicago as #1 city to live in...high cost of living, pot holes, taxes, Daley's homies, high cost of a ticket to show or sports event, property tax of $6,000 yr on a 1000 sq ft. condo, and crime is going up. I lost four people this year alone to violence. I would like to know how their staticial formula worked for the rankings.

Even in Capital Federal if you want to do business, have Argentine friends, or really just get off the tourist treadmill you have to speak Spanish. Life is definitely more interesting if you can communicate with the people and you certainly have the advantage of knowing if you are being ripped off.

I find Buenos Aires to be a fairly expensive city. For people who started arriving right after the peso devaluation we know that those days were dirt cheap. The dollar really does not stretch that far today. But, I guess it depends on your lifestyle.

The fact that insurance pays for surgery has nothing to do with the topic. The fact is that there is a surge in obsesity in Argentina. It is in the news often enough, anyway. Haven't you noticed all of the fast food eateries? There is a total 'fast food' culture now. Obesity is not as bad as in the U.S. but just give it 20 years.

And, Buenos Aires doesn't have pot holes? Where do you live? Are the sidewalks in Chicago worse than in Buenos Aires? I don't think so.

I am not putting down the fact that you lost four people to crime in Chicago. But, crime is pretty bad in Buenos Aires and getting worse. Don't you remember the protest this past March in Buenos Aires because of the fear of crime???

The article of which these comments are based gives the usual "Paris of the Americas" nonsense. I think that was true 70 - 100 years ago. Just look at the beautiful architecture from that time period. Then, fast forward to the construction that began in the late 1950's. The world keeps changing. Nothing stays the same.

 

[Recoleta Carolina]

Allow me to translate from an American guy's perspective:

1) Absolutely true!

-When it comes to hanging out in a major city spending American dollars and/or earning a salary in the States that is directly deposited into your account... this place is a joke it's so cheap. STILL. Not as cheap as it was, but CHEAP!

I am making my money here, so I don't fall into the target market of the AskMen.com guys, but from dinners to bars to taxis to rent, it is extremely inexpensive for people used to American/Euro/English big city prices.

2) TRUE... as long as you're dealing with the elite

-If you are a guy with money here on vacation and you eat at the expensive restaurants and you spend your time in the V.I.P. section of clubs or you meet up with your friends who are single guys with money in their 30s to 50s, all you are going to see are girls with nice bodies.

The heavier people on the street are invisible (obviously not my view if you've noticed photos) and/or you're always in taxis. You don't walk much and you NEVER take the subte or colectivos.

3) Spanish is NOT necessary in Buenos Aires

I've had several friends visit who don't speak Spanish and rave about what a great time they had. These guys are blowing money and find that throwing cash at things makes everything move smoothly and people start to understand English really quickly when that happens.

If you live here, you realize that even when you can speak some Spanish there are misunderstandings and frustration can set in. But if you visit and you go to San Telmo, Puerto Madero, Recoleta, and Palermo plus the restaurants/bars on your list that "your friends back home" gave you, then you will find that Spanish just isn't necessary here.

4) There is definitely a European Flair as seen through the eyes of Americans

-I'm not saying that anything runs smoothly like it does in central, northwestern, and northern Europe or the food is as tasty as nearly all of Europe (this has been discussed on other threads), but Buenos Aires is definitely not like the USA.

I'm not sure if this survey is for Americans, American & English men, or all native English speakers, but from people starting dinner between 10pm and 1am+ to the clubs & bars staying open all night, it is definitely has a "European flair". Throw in people smoking, the lack of cultural diversity (imagined when Americans think of Europe), the architecture, and statues in the parks and this city totally has a European Flair. And when you look at the transportation with the buses, subways, small cars/ lack of SUVs, and hundreds of little motorcyles & scooters buzzing around the streets of this city, there is nothing even remotely like it in the States.


ENTONCES:

I think that each one of those 4 points is absolutely correct. Especially when viewed through the eyes of their target market.

Well, you state that you are working in Buenos Aires and I assume you are earning dollars. That is why you find Buenos Aires so 'cheap.' But, I doubt that most people on this forum are living in the city with a great paying job that allows them to just throw dollars around and buy friends (male and female, I am sure).

You mention the 'elite.' You are a pompous ass and you would be better off in London but you couldn't cut it. Most elite would never even use the word. Stop throwing around those dollars and see just how desirable those ladies really think you are. Most people who consider themselves to be 'elite' would not come to a second world city to make themselves feel important.

You don't need Spanish. Well, tourists do not. Fair enough. But, the article is geared towards people who live in Buenos Aires. People who do not speak the language are always at a distinct disadvantage in many ways.

European through the eyes of an American? I don't think so. I have been to private boarding school in Europe and I have lived in Europe. So, have all of my closet friends. Buenos Aires lost its sense of Europe a long time ago.

Entonces:

Elite? You are dreaming. But, I sure would like to have some of whatever you are drinking.

 

[steveinbsas]

Well, you state that you are working in Buenos Aires and I assume you are earning dollars. That is why you find Buenos Aires so 'cheap.' But, I doubt that most people on this forum are living in the city with a great paying job that allows them to just throw dollars around and buy friends (male and female, I am sure).

You mention the 'elite.' You are a pompous ass and you would be better off in London but you couldn't cut it. Most elite would never even use the word. Stop throwing around those dollars and see just how desirable those ladies really think you are. Most people who consider themselves to be 'elite' would not come to a second world city to make themselves feel important.

You don't need Spanish. Well, tourists do not. Fair enough. But, the article is geared towards people who live in Buenos Aires. People who do not speak the language are always at a distinct disadvantage in many ways.

European through the eyes of an American? I don't think so. I have been to private boarding school in Europe and I have lived in Europe. So, have all of my closet friends. Buenos Aires lost its sense of Europe a long time ago.

Entonces:

Elite? You are dreaming. But, I sure would like to have some of whatever you are drinking.

I seriously doubt that anyone who has read most of Napoleon's posts during the past year would label him a pompous ass. I wonder why Carolina Recoleta found it necessary to insinuate that he would have to buy friends as well. How could CR possibly know if Napoleon is "throwing around those dollars" in an effort to attract women? What a presumption (and unfounded insult)!


The (additionally insulting and presumptuous) comment that Napoleon would be "better off in London" but he "couldn't cut it" is based upon what knowledge of his life? Ironically, the first person CR attacked here was tangobob, though according to his personal info he's "located" in Wales (not exactly London, but close enough). I know tangobob is living for the day he can relocate to BA permanently. A desire to live here doesn't entail failure anywhere else.

When RC challenged criswkh's comment about insurance paying for surgery she failed to correctly quote chriswkh, who made the distinction that insurance pays for cosmetic surgery here. That may be useful to a single man living here whether he is 30 or 60 (chin augmentations at 30 and eyelid surgery at 60 are not so rare these days).

The sidewalks of Chicago are in much better shape than those of BA, but the potholes in the streets cost hundreds of millions annually in street and car repairs. It's a weak comparison, and the chance of being murdered in Chicago is far greater than in BA. The sidewalks of Recoleta (and Retiro north of Av Santa Fe) are in remarkably good repair. At least Recoleta Carolina has less chance of twisting her ankle if she doesn't stray far from her own 'elite' neighborhood.

I think Napoleon's use of the term 'elite' (referring to a 'class' of Argentines) vas a bit tongue in cheek to say the least, fraulein. Anyone who has spent a little time in Europe will be able to see the differences and similarities when visiting Buenos Aires. Most Americans don't spend any time in European boarding schools.

I suggest that RC read the thread Happy Birthday America!! started by Napoleon last July. I have spent enough time in Europe to appreciate the difference between the European attitude towards Americans compare to the Argentine attitude. Of course there are far more American tourists in Europe than Argentina and many Europeans may have grown weary of the vast majority of those from the US who only speak English. I can happily add that I have felt more welcome in Argentina since the day I arrived (when my Spanish was not so good) than I ever have in Europe (though Paris is close due to my being able to say a few sentences in French with a good accent).

 

[criswkh]

RC :And, Buenos Aires doesn't have pot holes? Where do you live? Are the sidewalks in Chicago worse than in Buenos Aires? I don't think so.
The city of Chicago can't afford to fix their pot holes. KFC is fixing potholes in some cities in the states. I did not comment on the sidewalks. I live in Oliovos. I have seen pot holes being fixed here.
RC: the fact that insurance pays for surgery has nothing to do with the topic. How do you think some people stay thin? If you get obese it is "correctable with surgery". I personal like the fact you can get that paid for. There is a rise of Fast Food place and if you travel to in interior of the country you will find "heavier" people, but if you go to Chicago look at all the fat stuff they eat.
RCon't you remember the protest this past March in Buenos Aires because of the fear of crime??? I was at the protest in San Isidrio. How many students have died in Buenos Aires public schools this year. Chicago is up to 35 kids. Chicago you aren't allowed to have guns...at least here you can arm yourself. I was just in Chi-town a couple weeks ago...it is starting to become the next detriot. People I know that have grown up there are looking to move out...maybe to South America or other states. I'm just saying that I would like to know the statisics of Chicago being number 1.
I didn't compare BA as the Paris of the South. I haven't been to Europe, yet, but I do love the articheture here. I have been to other major cities in South America and BA is nice. Granted I have seen the cost of living increase.
Thank you Steve for fighting for this one.

 

[RWS]

Well, you state that you are working in Buenos Aires and I assume you are earning dollars. That is why you find Buenos Aires so 'cheap.' But, I doubt that most people on this forum are living in the city with a great paying job that allows them to just throw dollars around and buy friends (male and female, I am sure).
You mention the 'elite.' You are a pompous ass and you would be better off in London but you couldn't cut it. Most elite would never even use the word. Stop throwing around those dollars and see just how desirable those ladies really think you are. Most people who consider themselves to be 'elite' would not come to a second world city to make themselves feel important.
You don't need Spanish. Well, tourists do not. Fair enough. But, the article is geared towards people who live in Buenos Aires. People who do not speak the language are always at a distinct disadvantage in many ways.
European through the eyes of an American? I don't think so. I have been to private boarding school in Europe and I have lived in Europe. So, have all of my closet friends. Buenos Aires lost its sense of Europe a long time ago.
Entonces:
Elite? You are dreaming. But, I sure would like to have some of whatever you are drinking.

Caroline, I've no dog in this fight; and I've disagreements with "Napoleon". But I'm distressed to see animosity that needn't exist.

I think that you've mistaken friend N. on a number of points:

► he's indicated that he earns in AR$, not US$;

► he's given no indication that he buys friendship, and I doubt that he either needs to or does;

► read in context, the reference to "the elite" was a bit sarcastical, and not (it seems to me, a casual, disinterested reader) intended to include N. himself;

► N. (who does speaks some Spanish, IIRC) stated that a tourist in Bs.As., moving in heavily touristed areas, needn't speak Spanish, not that failure to speak the language is desireable;

► N. observed that Bs.As. is more European in appearance than a typical American city is (I'm not certain that I agree with him here -- though not one of your "closet friends", I'm an American who has lived, travelled, and partly been schooled in Europe -- but this may be more a matter of opinion than of fact); and

most generally, N.'s comments were in part intended (as I read them) to show why the publishing magazine might have reached its ratings, not to say that he endorses them himself.

And from my slender knowledge of what that magazine's target audience apparently is -- youngish American men -- I think what N. observed is reasonable.

 

[perry]

There are truths in what many members say about Buenos Aires and one that I do agree with is that Buenos Aires looks and feel likes a European City to me. The wealth of architecture in the Capital Federal is incredible with all styles in prominence. The ornate doors and the Bird cage lifts are amongst the best and even the best in the world. Take a hike out to Congreso, Monserrat,San Christobal and have a look at some of the buildings there they will blow your breath away with their beauty .

In regards to Buenos Aires having great food and supermarket prices I tend to agree with Baile and Recoleta Carolina that prices are comparable to United States . Of course if your diet just consists of meat and basic vegetables it is cheap but if you are like me and search for variety you will pay a huge premium. As well as the topic of restaurants there is little difference in prices now between the two countries with Buenos Aires being maybe 20 to 30 percent cheaper.

Now the most interesting topic for me is the image that Porteños have around the world for style and slim physiques. I have to say that obesity in Buenos Aires is high and growing at alarming rates. Style is also becoming non existent with very little individuality in the dress of the locals. Of course if you hang out on La Imprenta Las Cañitas , Libertador Avenue, Alvear, Posadas, Quintana and some other upmarket neighbourhood you will see stylish slim woman and men but if you are like me that knows most neighbourhoods of Buenos Aires you will see that many people here have very poor diets, bad dress sense and obese figures. . The culture of Buenos Aires is being changed irrevocably to one that fast foods are the norm and vegetables are a dirty word.

Click on link below to see that Argentina is now the 13th fattest country on the earth just below the USA.
http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/07/worlds-fattest-countries-forbeslife-cx_ls_0208worldfat_2.html

Saying all that though I believe Buenos Aires to be an fantastic city with the most incredible diversity of neighbourhoods . The parks and tree lined streets of the Capital Federal are beautiful and for me I find walking here to be one of my best pleasures. The streets are so full of life and bustle and in the main are safe. I do not agree that crime is as bad as American cities in the sense of gangs or stalkers that are common in other parts of the world. Saying that I quantify my statement to say be aware of business crime which is very high here.

If I would compare Chicage which I have visited to Buenos Aires . I have to say 100 percent that Buenos Aires is Number 1 due to many reasons too numerous too mention. The thing I love about this city is that you can feel so many emotions here but in the end you will love it more than any other city you have been. I know many expats who lived here and had a love hate relationship with the city but all tell me that they are dying to come back .

Why is that it is because at the end you feel more alive here than where you come from.

 

[tangobob]

The (additionally insulting and presumptuous) comment that Napoleon would be "better off in London" but he "couldn't cut" is based upon what knowledge of his life? Ironically, the first person CR attacked here was tangobob, though he's actually living in Wales (not exactly London, but close enough). I know tangobob is living for the day he can relocate to BA permanently. A desire to live here doesn't entail failure anywhere else.

Actually it's about 200miles away from London, but thanks for the endorsmenent.
I am back next week, and as you say rather than failure, it is the sucsesses I have had that have allowed me to be in Buenos Aires.