Buying a rural property in Argentina is HARD

[Redpossum]

I posted the link in response to questions asked in this thread:

Power of Attorney at a land sale

Buying rural or semi-rural property can be hard and also "somewhat" risky.

Living there can also be "somewhat" safe as well as very dangerous.

I know from experience (13 years of living in a semi-rural location) and I want anyone considering doing so to be well aware of the risks, as well as the rewards (like not being affected in any negative way whatsoever during the plandemic).

PS: My house and the galpon are no longer for sale, only the 2500 mt2 lot beside my house...and only for sale to a DIY prepper.

Ah, I see! Well, that is certainly a good and valid reason.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

With Cordoba you have to be carefull about arsenical waters.
Misiones is very undeveloped, I think you have to go in person.
At BA province there are major issues with houses because there was a drought and the land is very clayey. So, many houses sunk and / or got structural damage.
I gave up buying a house, I prefer to build it properly and it is cheaper, about 600 usd per mt2.

 

[earlyretirement]

I waited a few years to comment on this post as I wanted to see who else had stories but THIS is exactly what I was talking about. Realtors for the most part are horrible. Many Escribanos/Notary Publics too. Same thing with accountants. YOU must make sure everything is in order when buying. There are so many scams you can't comprehend in Argentina in real estate in Argentina.

I've NEVER had one issue since 2002 buying hundreds of millions of dollars in real estate. Why? I really prepared and thought of EVERY single way I could get cheated. Then just went backwards. When I was going to first buy in Buenos Aires I put an advertisement in the Buenos Aires Herald offering to pay foreigners that purchased to do a survey. $200 US dollars @ and I spent thousands of dollars. They had to show me a copy of their escritura (title deed) to get the $200 US.

I asked which realtor they used, which lawyer, which accountant, what would they do differently, how did they get cheated, did they pay any extra taxes or fees, what did they pay, how did they find those professionals, etc. It was shocking how many of them got cheated. Some didn't even know they got cheated until we showed them they got charged "phantom taxes" that were fake.

I instantly saw every single way someone got cheated or lied to. What mistakes they made, etc. I figured if I was going to cash in my 401K, sell my house, my cars and all worldly possessions and invest it in Buenos Aires real estate (no leverage or loans/mortgages there so I had to cash in on everything) then I wanted to be prepared. I formulated a business plan to do everything 100% legal and correct and make it risk free.

It was shocking to see how many people got cheated or scammed when they were buying. Only 2 out of dozens didn't get cheated. That's how I found the long time Escribano that I started working with. The 2 people had that one link in common. I started doing due diligence and that guy was a 2 time ex President of the Buenos Aires Colegios de Escribano (the BA Bar Association) that did everything right.

I approached him about an idea I had to start an investing and consulting company helping foreigners buy. And then we went on the biggest real estate purchasing spree in Buenos Aires history.

My point is you MUST know what you're doing. You need to use good lawyers, good accountants. There is NO room for mistakes and the laws are different for non-resident foreigners vs. locals. There is no small claims court, even regular law-suits take 7 years and judges get bought off (another story for another day) and it's all cash so NO recourse. NO room for mistakes on buying real estate here.

 

[Reply Guy]

With Cordoba you have to be carefull about arsenical waters.
Misiones is very undeveloped, I think you have to go in person.
At BA province there are major issues with houses because there was a drought and the land is very clayey. So, many houses sunk and / or got structural damage.
I gave up buying a house, I prefer to build it properly and it is cheaper, about 600 usd per mt2.

Any parts of the country that you believe have good deals and that don't face a lot of potential issues?

 

[earlyretirement]

@steveinbsas, @semigoodlookin

I've been living in Argentina since January of 2015. I used to take public transit to work at a plastic shop before I lost my job a couple of months ago, I worked with negros from the villa nearby (I live in the Great Buenos Aires area) who cannot read and write and who had dealt drugs and conducted robberies themselves, some of them were stabbed and shot at, I even visited one of them in the villa one time out of curiosity and could not believe the conditions (I asked other co-workers to accompany me because I was afraid to go there by myself).

You are right to say that in their mind they have all the best reasons in the world to attack westerners if they see the potential to steal but along with the hyped sense of alarm there should also be a healthy degree of perspective and understanding.

First of all, I do not live in a country club like you do Steven, that automatically makes you a target, almost any peronista in the villa would wish you were dead. Then claiming that the entire country is on lockdown is an outright exaggeration, I've looked at crime rates and compared numbers to discover that crime and homicide rates are actually very comparable to those of New City, for example, in some cases are much better, in the matter of fact Buenos Aires happens to be statistically safer than Santiago, Chile and Buenos Aires is probably the worst in entire Argentina.

Yes, you can argue that stats under Cristina were not accurate but I've also spoken to locals and they all agree that it's much safer to live outside the rat's nest (GBA) where all the migrants are cut-throat desperate to make a buck by stealing if need be. So out in the campo, it should be better for as long as we do not stand out and do not do anything that would invite attention unless one is being unlucky, but that is not something that can be controlled regardless of where you are in the world.

Of course, there is always the risk of a robbery and the best way of preventing one is to be prepared and we can make sure that our future property is secured and that we know when to leave it and when to stay home, properly fenced with numerous guard dogs, a hunting rifle perhaps, etc but I still insist on the point that the city is more dangerous than the campo if you are going to think that police can somehow prevent all robberies, they help but not always.

I would like to share a good Christmas story with you:

About a year and a half ago I visited a friend in a good neighborhood here in GBA (clean safe neighborhood close to city center) and after dinner time I accompanied him in his car to pick up something that he needed at the gas station, it was dark already. As soon as we drove off the gas station there was this dark (with no headlights) car following us all the way back to my friend's house, we got in quickly through the remote-controlled gate and thought they went away but the car did another loop around the block and stopped right outside the gate with few men inside it, no lights, just radios could be heard, they were communicating to someone else, a friend told me that they were the police who conduct organized robberies so he told me to get in the house but I didn't quite get it so I stayed outside the side door looking at them through the reja, luckily they couldn't see me from behind the tree, one of them held a gun.

The wife and his daughters started to panic and called the police, once the suspicious muchachos heard them calling the police they simply drove away. Then the cops came, listened to the story, asked if everybody was okay and drove away, and it is not clear who those guys were, since then my friend got obsessed with making the fence taller with more spikes on it, he put double lock on the gate as well as the front door, he also cancelled his patrol security because somehow they were not present on the roads that night, so how can it be safer living inside a city?

His neighbor lady got robbed while she was inside a shower, a group of men came in, told her to dress up and not to do anything stupid, they then tied her up politely and cleaned the house as if they were a moving company in the middle of the day, without a hurry and very professionally, nobody got hurt and she ended up borrowing a plate for dinner because there was nothing left in her house, that's how great the police are. My point is that cities are more dangerous because everybody here is a target.

This happened because city people are naturally targeted by organized criminals who don't have to go far to conduct their business and by the poor who feel disadvantaged want to make an attempt if they can see you've got a nice casa behind a nice gate.

I wouldn't live in a gated community there outside. As mentioned, the thieves just can rob those houses blind. Typically the security guards call their thug buddies after you leave. It's not so secure like people think. I have a lot of friends that have gotten robbed there in gated communities.

The safest is the tall modern high-rises with security guards and cameras everywhere. The thieves don't dare rob these when there are easier "pickings". I actually don't find Buenos Aires dangerous. You just have to always be alert. I am VERY proud to have assisted/hosted well over 100,000+ tourists over the past 21+ years that come to Buenos Aires and stay in my or my client's rental properties. You know what? Only probably 25 foreigners or so over 21+ years had what I'd consider more aggressive robberies.

Sure many got their cellphones stolen in the subway that they didn't even know about. I'm not counting those as there were a LOT and probably more of people that never told us. These thieves are VERY good. Some years ago, President Bush's daughters came to Buenos Aires. They had 6 secret service agents and they still got robbed from in San Telmo. Even their secret service detail didn't know. That's how good the thieves are.

Back to these aggressive robberies in the 25 people above, they ignored our advice and several of them had Rolex or Cartier watches on which is the first thing we sent in the reservation confirmations told them to avoid bringing. The others were "Passport Bros" that picked up strange girls (i.e. prostittutes) and got drugged and robbed or our gay clients that picked up strange guys in gay bars and got drugged and robbed.

That's it. I think 15 were Rolex/Cartier robberies and the rest were prostitute related. Buenos Aires is a very safe city but I agree those gated communities get robbed all the time.

 

[earlyretirement]

Ah, I see! Well, that is certainly a good and valid reason.

Quit worrying about old threads getting revived. It's NOT a big deal IMHO. People can post their updated information and experiences. Forums are to share and recount up to date situations. Nothing wrong with a relevant and helpful thread getting posted on.

 

[FrankPintor]

With Cordoba you have to be carefull about arsenical waters.
Misiones is very undeveloped, I think you have to go in person.
At BA province there are major issues with houses because there was a drought and the land is very clayey. So, many houses sunk and / or got structural damage.
I gave up buying a house, I prefer to build it properly and it is cheaper, about 600 usd per mt2.

I have to say, subsidence because of drought never crossed my mind. Building brings its own set of problems, first off with the overload to water, electricity, and sewage networks caused by the post-pandemic exodus of people from CABA. You need to do some research to identify your site.

Once you have your site, it will probably be administered by a "fideicomiso", in part, I understand, because of the backlog in getting land purchases notarized. These fideicomisos are self-appointed, normally with an architect who feels entitled to interfere with your design and who's trying to get his/her sticky fingers into the different building projects in the development (this isn't legal, but whatever...). The fideicomiso also charges whatever monthly fees it feels like, and the numbers will likely never add up. Depending on the amenities offered by the development, the monthly fees could be from 50k up to 100+k Pesos.

Then you get to deal with the architects and builders. Architects are monumentally lazy, arrogant, unresponsive, and expensive. There are ways around them, but not everyone knows. Builders seem to quote for a project based on whatever fantasy number last passed through their minds, in the knowledge that they'll charge more as they blow through all the milestones and deadlines to end up with all the money spent (but, on what?), and the house still unfinished. Also, they'll underpay their workers, so they get inexperienced guys, and buy whatever materials are most convenient for them, plus fake invoices for you to justify the costs.

It can be done, but it's not straightforward.