Chaco Province, Unemployment Cero !! A First Ever

[EdRooney]

Nico,

I love your point about the leaders in power being the same ones that created the crisis, but now singing a different tune. I absolutely couldn't agree more, and it will a great day when people everywhere stop thinking that all they need to do is elect some Messiah. I would, however, take issue with the idea of completely rejecting INDEC or NYT wholesale.

I have a lot of friends in the US who have given up on reading the news. They read in the press that 200,000 jobs were created this month.... The economy is improving... The Housing market is booming... etc., but in their own lives they see they are making less than they were 20 years ago. The figures published in the news doesn't seem to match the reality they live, so they just drop out politically, end up watching Football instead. But isn't that kind of the goal of publishing misleading information: to get people to give up? And up there at least it seems to be working big time.

Yet if you look at those 200,000 jobs created, and actually scratch the numbers just a little bit, you see that they barely meet population growth, and that most of the jobs are part-time, temporary or minimum wage, then you can start to get a better picture, one that actually matches reality. This is why I'm saying that we shouldn't just be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Read the NYT, but do so with a critical eye. Matías makes a very good point in that INDEC has the largest team of top-level sociologists and statisticians in the country, just like the Times has excellent infrastructure and top journalists (along with a slew of miserable government stenographers). If we give up on these institutions because they are tainted, then not only is the work of these professionals thrown down the drain, but the powers that do not want us to know the truth win. The best thing for them is to have a disengaged uneducated public, and I see no reason to assist them in that goal.

 

[ElQueso]

EdRooney, personally I would rather depend on private agencies that do things like come in independently (in Argentina's case) and do a true measure of inflation based on the value of things they find in every day life than believe INDEC. I'd rather look for a variety of news sources on the internet and make my own mind up based on my personal experience and the reputation of the sources and the given material than read the NYT with a critical eye (aside from including it as one of the sources I'd read as well, but I know that's what you meant as well).

If we give up on these institutions because they are tainted, then not only is the work of these professionals thrown down the drain, but the powers that do not want us to know the truth win. The best thing for them is to have a disengaged uneducated public, and I see no reason to assist them in that goal.

The problem I have with that statement, at least with organizations like INDEC (that being specifically a government agency) and the professionals who work for them is that those very professionals ceased to be so and ceased to be taken seriously when they compromised their professional integrity and allowed the government to pressure them to put out obvious lies. How do we know when these guys are telling the truth or not? I don't wish them ill, and I understand they have to feed their families, and I know why they publish what they publish, but it taints their professional reputation for all time. How do we know when they are telling the truth or following orders and parroting what the government wants the people to hear?

The best way to learn the truth is not to depend on any one source and when one sees something that sounds too good to be true (particular something like Obama has the answers to all healthcare woes and those evil fascist conservatives are just trying to make slaves of everyone and let the poor die off) then it should be met with skepticism and the truth demanded from all corners of the country. If I see a government agency lying, I won't believe what they have to say until the managers and workers have been replaced and a whole new team come in to replace things. I'd like to see that happen but it never really does, which is why I have such a hard time believing anything that comes out of the mouths of any government organization or popular media outlet.

In INDEC's particular case, I don't know that I would ever believe them again.

Raise holy hell when the idiots are caught in a lie and refuse to believe them after that.

 

[scotttswan]

I have anecdotal evidence of a few friends who used to work for INDEC being pushed out because they didn't conform with the organised protests and shit.

These people are not anti-k or peronists, they just got sick of the constant badgering and not being aloud to do the job they were supposed to. Numbers arbitrary changed to suit whatever was needed by the people in power. It just wasn't the job that they signed up for.

I wouldn't trust any numbers coming out of INDEC now. I'm sure not all of the numbers are messed but when you see things like this:

on the outside of the INDEC offices (and having walked past a few times they have nonsense like this on the inside too!)

Its like reading http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/ and believing them to represent the facts from a centralist point of view or watching http://rt.com/ and believing they don't have a Russian stance.

I also have other friends, who work in various Argentine government departments, who over the years have started copy pasting the latest government spiel on social media sites. Its quite amusing seeing all the latest pro-k bullshit being spewed out on facebook and then a few days later the usual "I'm not a kirchnerite but...." people coming out with exactly the same shit slightly re-written on here.

I wonder how many of the top-level sociologists and statisticians are left in INDEC and how many have left the country.
I know many Argentine graduates who have left the country over the years to work in Europe and America and many more who are thinking about doing so.
Again anecdotally i see a huge brain drain here in Argentina on a much grander scale that i saw in Scotland (and i have to include Ireland too, i only know of 2 of my Irish friends who still live and work in Ireland) which itself has huge number of graduates leaving for London, Australia, Canada etc...

If only there was an independent statistics organisation we could find out how accurate my anecdotal evidence is. :lol:

 

[Bajo_cero2]

http://fortunaweb.co...inversionistas/

Well, I think it is naive to claim for true. The whole thing about indec is there are bonds attached to inflacion. So, they lie to pay less.

Before that, the bonds were estimated using the Emerging Markets Bonds Index. This was calculated by JP Morgan, the same company that confess that they were liying to make more money.

So, what it was done at Indec is to play with the real rules of capitalism to protect the interest of the people of her own country. Other Presidents like De la Rua behaved as employed of JP Morgan.

 

[Osiris]

if only they would tax the venomous snakes a little more to give the regular, garden variety snakes a fighting chance. works like a charm in california.