Citizenship

[FreelancerDigitalNomad]

Tourists are admitted under residente TRANSITORIO. Depending on who you ask it may or may not count toward an eventual citizenship case (almost certainly it would not). People who have managed to obtain citizenship entering as tourists usually stay here for several years (overstaying or doing visa runs) and establish lives here,

And they (something similar to. US-ICE: U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement) do not deport if they find that out if someone has overstayed the visa?

 

[dsp27]

And they (something similar to. US-ICE: U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement) do not deport if they find that out if someone has overstayed the visa?

Overstaying in Argentina is not a crime as the case in the US. It's an administrative infringement. You pay a fine and if you overdo it risk being denied re-entry and barred for a few years.
That being said, I would advise you to seek citizenship only if you are serious about spending 3-4 years here on (semi)permanent bases. While it is true you can apply without residence and a few years living here, the likelihood of your cases being thrown out or just stuck in the purgatory for years is very high. Even with a lawyer (and they ain't cheap). The ideal route is residence of some sort first then citizenship, any other "creative" interpretation of the immigration law won't fly with most judges.
P.S. There is of course a "shortcut" having an argentine native born child...then you can apply without having lived here.

 

[Kula]

I have Argentinian children and in my sentence judge wrote that I lived here more then 2 years like if I had too.

Meanwhile parents of Argentinians have no such requirement and indeed can apply right away. On practice they all spend here at least 1-2 years, as you apply and the procedure starts... in the end it's all the same as those who have no Argentinian children. I didn't find any advantage.

 

[dsp27]

I have Argentinian children and in my sentence judge wrote that I lived here more then 2 years like if I had too.

Meanwhile parents of Argentinians have no such requirement and indeed can apply right away. On practice they all spend here at least 1-2 years, as you apply and the procedure starts... in the end it's all the same as those who have no Argentinian children. I didn't find any advantage.

Believe it or not some judges are clueless about what the law says.
So your sentence is out? When is your swear in?

 

[SpanishGuy]

the likelihood of your cases being thrown out or just stuck in the purgatory for years is very high. Even with a lawyer (and they ain't cheap). The ideal route is residence of some sort first then citizenship, any other "creative" interpretation of the immigration law won't fly with most judges.

Interesting. That is not what I have heard... I have heard that getting a residency which is not for studying (rentista) can take years even with a lawyer and that structuring and paperwork can be a nightmare.

Just overstaying your visa and using something like a specialized lawyer.

 

[Alby]

Interesting. That is not what I have heard... I have heard that getting a residency which is not for studying (rentista) can take years even with a lawyer and that structuring and paperwork can be a nightmare.

Just overstaying your visa and using something like a specialized lawyer.

You are confusing citizenship with residency here, and within residency, you are confusing a couple more things.

 

[dsp27]

Interesting. That is not what I have heard... I have heard that getting a residency which is not for studying (rentista) can take years even with a lawyer and that structuring and paperwork can be a nightmare.

Just overstaying your visa and using something like a specialized lawyer.

If you have all the docs for any of the residencies (including rentista) the process these days is uncomplicated and should not take long. You don't need a lawyer but can certainly get a "handler" although in my experience most don't do much -- they just have connections at DNM and might speed up somewhat the process.
Good luck getting the citizenship going via the route of overstaying and trying to convince the court you are eligible for the carta the ciudadania. It will certainly take you way more than 2 years, probably close to 4-5 yrs if you are ultimately successful. You will also likely end up paying ~10k dollars in legal fees and guess what you won't be netting this money back if your petition ultimately is unsuccessful. This route is becoming more and more uncertain and although we do have a few successful cases, just like "visa runs" it's not really a viable option IMO. Also, you'd be stuck in Argentina during the legal case since you risk being denied reentry unless you lawyer manages to successfully petition the court por "protection"...

 

[SpanishGuy]

You are confusing citizenship with residency here, and within residency, you are confusing a couple more things.

No, I do not believe I am.

 

[SpanishGuy]

If you have all the docs for any of the residencies (including rentista) the process these days is uncomplicated and should not take long. You don't need a lawyer but can certainly get a "handler" although in my experience most don't do much -- they just have connections at DNM and might speed up somewhat the process.
Good luck getting the citizenship going via the route of overstaying and trying to convince the court you are eligible for the carta the ciudadania. It will certainly take you way more than 2 years, probably close to 4-5 yrs if you are ultimately successful. You will also likely end up paying ~10k dollars in legal fees and guess what you won't be netting this money back if your petition ultimately is unsuccessful. This route is becoming more and more uncertain and although we do have a few successful cases, just like "visa runs" it's not really a viable option IMO. Also, you'd be stuck in Argentina during the legal case since you risk being denied reentry unless you lawyer manages to successfully petition the court por "protection"...

Thank you. That is helpful!

 

[steveinbsas]

Interesting. That is not what I have heard... I have heard that getting a residency which is not for studying (rentista) can take years even with a lawyer and that structuring and paperwork can be a nightmare.

Getting the visa rentista may be problematic fot individuals who have difficulties "proving" the source of their passive, stable, and uninterruptable monthly foreign income from foreign investments, but it shouldn't "take years" or require an Argentine lawyer.

Getting the visa pensionada is even easier.

Neither should require paying a lawyer.

Just overstaying your visa and using something like a specialized lawyer.

The system is that temporary residency granted by migraciones allows foreigners to "legally" live in Argentina year round and the two most important categories (for the purpose of this discussion) are the visa rentista and the visa pensionado.

Neither one of those visas requires transferring the foreign income (wich cannot be dervived from working in Argentina or working remotely on line from Argentina) to an Argentine bank and then pesifying those dollars at the officail rate.

There is no visa that grants temporary residency to a foreigner who is earning foreign income on line and even if the "Digital Nomad Visa" (DNV) is ever approved, it will not grant temporary residency (which would be a prerequisite for the DNV).

The digital Nomad visa would, however, subject those who alredy have temporary or permanent residency and live in Argentina more than six month of the year to transfer their "digital foreign income" to an Argentine bank and pesify that income at the official rate.

Overstaying a tourist visa and working remotely (earning income in another country) online for two years without having legal residency in order not to pay tax on that income or having to comply with what the system "dictates" (my favorite word for it) is a perfect example of "cheating" the system, whether one is waiting to get citizenship or not.

So, if anyone doesn't think that is cheating "the system" I would greatly appreciate knowing why.

Perhaps a nicer word for it would be "gaming" the sustem, but since the poster chose to use the word cheating, I'll stick with that,

PS: I have lived in Argentina alomst 16 years and I have never transferred a single USD to an Argentine bank or paid one centavo of income tax in Argentina, and it has never been necessary for me to cheat or game the system in any way.