Comparsion of supermarket prices Montevideo vs BA

[Reply Guy]

I'm not right wing. I think the government has a sensible role to play in the market. But it's a fact that peronism has impoverished Argentina. Promoting it as a way to develop and provide a high standard of living for the population is a puzzling.

Add to the fact that many peronist politicians are white supremacists, narcos whose businesses murder many innocents, and thieves who steal public resources that could go to the poor - being a proud peronist is something I can't wrap my head around.

 

[Alby]

I'm not right wing. I think the government has a sensible role to play in the market. But it's a fact that peronism has impoverished Argentina. Promoting it as a way to develop and provide a high standard of living for the population is a puzzling.

Add to the fact that many peronist politicians are white supremacists, narcos whose businesses murder many innocents, and thieves who steal public resources that could go to the poor - being a proud peronist is something I can't wrap my head around.

If any of those things were true. But haven't you been told? The problem is we only believe what we hear and read on the hegemonic media.

 

[Reply Guy]

If any of those things were true. But haven't you been told? The problem is we only believe what we hear and read on the hegemonic media.

Which one of those statements isn't true?

 

[Quilombo]

How did this thread veer from supermarket prices to Canadian trans kids.

I'll take the blame for this one. Comparing Uruguay to Argentina reminds me a lot of comparing Canada to the United States (or Austria and Germany or Australia and New Zealand, etc.), and many Canadians don't like this, especially as I personally don't sugarcoat my views on the two countries as I'm a product of both. As to trans kids specifically, I was pointing out that Canada/it's provinces are guilty of the same sins liberals in the US lament about Southern/flyover states doing, which I believe just further proves my point that it's essentially one country divided arbitrarily by lines on a map, which is something many Canadians dislike/find offensive, but I earnestly do believe.

To help us get back on track, I just checked some items we frequently buy and here were my findings:

Disco UY (not the same as Disco AR), Carrefour AR, and Walmart US (8.25% sales tax) used:

Country/Product	Coke Zero 1.5L	1L Clorox Bleach	1L Lac. Free Milk	Red Apples (1LB)	Bimbo/Wonderbread	Total:
Argentina	$1.37	66¢	$1.00	60¢/lb	$2.83	$6.46
Uruguay	$3.51	$2.58	$2.53	$2.89/lb	$3.45	$14.96
United States	$2.17	$2.60	$3.04	$1.36/lb	$2.92	$12.09

The last time I went grocery shopping in Uruguay was in 2015 and a friend here asked me what I thought of Montevideo and I said "super expensive and boring Buenos Aires" and I stand by that statement. Uruguay's minimum wage is $569.84/month, so this basket of goods is equal to 2.6% of a month's minimum wage, while in Buenos Aires, it's equal to 4.74%, so it's also important to keep that in mind.

 

[Alby]

Which one of those statements isn't true?

According to my Peronista friends, none of them are true. And I (and you, and most other people) only think they are true because the media I consume tells me they are.

(They may or may not have a point. Unfortunately, there is nobody in the middle to help me make up my mind either way. One day I may have to conclude that both they and the hegemonic media are a little bit right, and a little bit wrong.)

 

[Reply Guy]

You don't need to consume hegemonic media to come to those conclusions.

1. White Supremacy

The former leader of the Peronist party Alberto Fernandez said out loud, Argentines are superior Europeans and Brazilians are a bunch monkeys who emerged from the jungle, and Mexicans are indians. If that's not white supremacy, I don't know what is.

2. Thieves

Many politicians make meager salaries and declare very little income yet have mansions, luxury cars, properties across the world.

3. Narcos

Everyone knows who the narcos are in Argentina and who protects them.

4. Economic development

Look around with your own eyes.

 

[Neil]

You don't need to consume hegemonic media to come to those conclusions.

1. White Supremacy

The former leader of the Peronist party Alberto Fernandez said out loud, Argentines are superior Europeans and Brazilians are a bunch monkeys who emerged from the jungle, and Mexicans are indians. If that's not white supremacy, I don't know what is.

2. Thieves

Many politicians make meager salaries and declare very little income yet have mansions, luxury cars, properties across the world.

3. Narcos

Everyone knows who the narcos are in Argentina and who protects them.

4. Economic development

Look around with your own eyes.

Hugo Moyano's humble abode...

 

[Ries]

And the Uruguayan state doesn't have incentives, financial aid, an innovation department and policies of its own?
https://www.uruguayxxi.gub.uy/es/quiero-invertir/plataformas-de-negocio/innovacion-1/
https://www.gub.uy/tramites/apoyo-emprendimientos-productivos
http://www.c-emprendedor.gub.uy/otros_apoyos.php

As for the definition of Free Market... looks pretty well defined and simple enough to comprehend to me (which also corresponds to what I vaguely seem to recall from back in my university days...) Again, Switzerland is ranked number 2 in the world as most closely matching this definition.
View attachment 9490

So, No country on earth, and no country ever.
Because "unrestricted" means no taxes, duties, regulations, government oversight, subsidies, tax breaks, special depreciation rules, workplace safety laws, monopoly restrictions, regulations on labor organizing, food safety laws, road safety rules, government regulation of airwaves, airspace, zoning, environmental regulations, drug safety, patents or copyrights, and on and on.
This is as much a fantasy as unicorns or libertarianism.
Regulation of business is, and always has been, a spectrum. Nobody ever is all the way at either end.
There are economies where you can pay for less regulation (bribes, or lobbyists) and places where the rulers families are more "free".
But Unrestricted competition doesnt exist anywhere. Restrictions vary.

 

[antipodean]

But Unrestricted competition doesnt exist anywhere. Restrictions vary.

No one is saying otherwise. In fact the same scoring system of economic freedom that puts Switzerland in 2nd place "only" gives it a score of 83.8%. The definition is there and it is clear to everyone - the closer you get to it, the more free a market is.