Couple of questions about long term rentals

[imranq2]

We're looking around for a 2 year apartment rental and the real estate agents are telling us we need to pay a deposit and make a reservation (reserva de locación) BEFORE we can negotiate with the owner. The owner's agent was asking for two months rent as commission and we told our agent we don't want to pay more than one month's commission. She told us we can put down two month's commission in the reservation and she will negotiate with the agent. She told us this document was just to start discussions so she did not include any of our other conditions in the document either.

Well, now the owner has accepted our reserva de locación but the owner's agent is not budging from the 2 month's commission. The reserva de locación is in Spanish and we showed it to a local and She said it says we lose the deposit if the owner accepts the reservation and we don't go through with it. Our agent did not tell us that so what can we do now?

Also in case our company transfers us back to the US we're asking that if we give a 3 month notice then the owner not charge a penalty if we leave after six months. The real estate agent is saying that BY LAW the penalty has to be 2 months rent. Is this true?

 

[nikad]

Well, now the owner has accepted our reserva de locación but the owner's agent is not budging from the 2 month's commission. The reserva de locación is in Spanish and we showed it to a local and She said it says we lose the deposit if the owner accepts the reservation and we don't go through with it. Our agent did not tell us that so what can we do now?

You are pretty much screwed there imho, unless you can find a way to bypass the agent and explain this to the owner, but your chances of this issue being solved in your favor are very slim.

Also in case our company transfers us back to the US we're asking that if we give a 3 month notice then the owner not charge a penalty if we leave after six months. The real estate agent is saying that BY LAW the penalty has to be 2 months rent. Is this true?

This is not true, there is no law that states this and a private contract can include or exclude whatever the parts agree to.

 

[Davidglen77]

http://www.leydealquileres.com.ar/ - read this it's very useful.......and remember, they can put whatever they want in the contract, the "ley de alquileres" will always be on the side of the tenant. And.......if they mess with you, just stop paying the rent, send them a carta documento acusing them of ALL kinds of things and they will crap in their pants.......it takes years to get a tenant out of an apartment, play hardball right back with them, they are taking advantage of you because you are extranjero.

 

[wreReynolds]

Argie RE agents make used-car salemen look like an archangel

 

[imranq2]

Thanks for the replies. So what's the normal process when you want to negotiate with the owner. Do you have to do the reservation plus deposit BEFORE you can negotiate?

 

[jlsronce]

No, the "reserva" is only put down so that they know you are serious about negotiating. From there you negotiate, but if terms are not accepted by the owner then you get your money back. If you and the owner accept terms then you will sign something with all the terms listed and a closing date where you will move into the apartment. If the apartment is not ready and all the terms met by that date at the fault of the owner they he has to return your reserva and pay you equal value of the reserva. The norm is to pay one months rent for a 2 year contract. The owner may also have to pay one months rent to the Imobiliaria but you should not be charged that. Here is my simple solution: If you only want to pay one month's rent for the commission, offer the owner what he is asking minus the other months commission. That is if you really want the place. Also you can say that you want to ability to break the lease with said amount of notice. If it is in the lease, there is no law that says there has to be a penalty. If you don't want the place, just make up ridiculous terms to the lease, like that the owner has to put all new kitchen appliances in, or that he has to redo the hardwood flooring. Something that he obviously won't accept. Last and most importantly is you should find yourself a lawyer to help you with this. Find an Argentine friend you trust and ask them if they have a lawyer that they trust that wont screw you over or rob you blind because you are a foreigner.

 

[ndcj]

This is not true, there is no law that states this and a private contract can include or exclude whatever the parts agree to.

This is not exactly true. You cannot make a contract that is contrary to law.

All rental contracts for residential tenancies in Argentina have, by law, a clause that says you can, as the tenant, terminate the contract ("resolucion anticipada") any time after the first six months of the contract.

Between six months and one year, you pay 1.5 months rent and between one year and the end of the two year contract, you pay one month. You must give 60 days notice and you should send it via a carta documento, no matter how friendly you are with the landlord. You can contract a more permissive term (for example, no termination fee after 12 months if you give 90 days notice), but you cannot contract out of the minimum provided by law.

Two other common clauses that are not valid, because they are contrary to the legally mandated minimums of a rental contract:

• Agreeing to pay more than one month in advance -- you can obtain all prepaid rent back, along with interest and lawyers fees. This is especially useful leverage for expats who often pay a year or more in advance to avoid having a garantia, but then find that the landlord doesn't want to fix anything or be at all helpful.
• Clauses that provide for a "multa" that exceeds costs and a reasonable rate of interest for paying rent late or is some crazy fee for staying past the end of the contracted term -- these are usury, and are illegal.

For the OP, there's nothing to stop you offering a contract that allows you to leave with X days notice with no penalty at the reserva stage. If you and the landlord cannot agree on the terms of the contract within the time frame provided in the document, then the reserva is canceled and you are entitled to your money back.

You should negotiate these terms in writing in case you end up in a fight to get your reserva back if things go pear shaped. Also for this reason, only put down a very small amount for the reserva (certainly no more than what would be required to cover the proposed rent for the period of the negotiation -- if the reserva is for one week, don't pay more than the equivalent of one week's rent as the reserva).

 

[Elpanada]

Agreement this agreement that... what's wrong with people???

If they don't trust you to stay in their apartment then they shouldn't rent it out to you and if you don't trust your landlord regarding any range of issues e.x ( he might go into the apartment and steal our stuff, we might not get our deposit back, maybe he won't fix the apartment if something goes wrong, blablala) then well ofcourse you shouldn't rent from him either.

Like none of this sounds honest to be honest, the owner must want some conditions met if he is to let someone into his property and the would be tenant must be looking for a place that suits his or her needs. If things don't click then the thing to do is to find another apartment/tenant... not to be passing money around back and forth before negotiating about matters.

I recall this one real estate agent that I spoke to ages ago, he said: Another apartment will always come... and he was right I didn't get the one that I had wanted on that day but the one I ended up getting was probably much better than the one I lost. The process of finding a place to live is always stressful I suppose but the thing to do is just to try and enjoy it and not let it get to you, it's the worst thing that you can do really.

On a side note playing hardball with your landlord is often a very very bad idea.

 

[jlsronce]

I'm not exactly clear on the rules for diplomats and if they differ from regular people but in my lease I have it in the contract that I can brake it with only 30 days notice and under no penalty. This includes the first six months. I doubt your owner will agree to the terms that I have but you should be able to negotiate for what you want. In fact... here is exactly what my lease says: "By reason of the diplomatic character of the occupant of this residence, in event of the termination of his/her diplomatic functions in this country, or in event the Government of the United States of America acquires its own property in Buenos Aires, or for any other reason as required by the Government of the United States of America, the TENANT may terminate the present lease before the date of expiration thereof by notifying the LANDLORD in writing not less than thirty days before such termination, and the LANDLORD shall be entitled to collect no payment other than for rental to the date the TENANT surrenders the property." Suerte amigos!

 

[nikad]

The rental law does not say anywhere you cannot terminate your contract, so I am not sure what you mean here. The fact that people are used to standard contracts does not mean you cannot have a different one written. This is a private negotiation and none of what the OP mentions is against any law...

This is not exactly true. You cannot make a contract that is contrary to law.

All rental contracts for residential tenancies in Argentina have, by law, a clause that says you can, as the tenant, terminate the contract ("resolucion anticipada") any time after the first six months of the contract.

Between six months and one year, you pay 1.5 months rent and between one year and the end of the two year contract, you pay one month. You must give 60 days notice and you should send it via a carta documento, no matter how friendly you are with the landlord. You can contract a more permissive term (for example, no termination fee after 12 months if you give 90 days notice), but you cannot contract out of the minimum provided by law.

Two other common clauses that are not valid, because they are contrary to the legally mandated minimums of a rental contract:

• Agreeing to pay more than one month in advance -- you can obtain all prepaid rent back, along with interest and lawyers fees. This is especially useful leverage for expats who often pay a year or more in advance to avoid having a garantia, but then find that the landlord doesn't want to fix anything or be at all helpful.
• Clauses that provide for a "multa" that exceeds costs and a reasonable rate of interest for paying rent late or is some crazy fee for staying past the end of the contracted term -- these are usury, and are illegal.

For the OP, there's nothing to stop you offering a contract that allows you to leave with X days notice with no penalty at the reserva stage. If you and the landlord cannot agree on the terms of the contract within the time frame provided in the document, then the reserva is canceled and you are entitled to your money back.

You should negotiate these terms in writing in case you end up in a fight to get your reserva back if things go pear shaped. Also for this reason, only put down a very small amount for the reserva (certainly no more than what would be required to cover the proposed rent for the period of the negotiation -- if the reserva is for one week, don't pay more than the equivalent of one week's rent as the reserva).