database comparing cost of living between 2 selected cities

[steveinbsas]

For a detailed comparison with London see posts #112-117 in this thread: Want to expat! Hungry for knowledge

 

[jb5]

Mizzmar, here's my take:

I think lots of expats come without adequate financial resources and have a pretty low quality of life. They come based on a myth that was true 5 years ago.

However, I think for professional expats being paid in dollars or euro, the quality of life can be very good. They can get much better housing if they pay the same rent they paid in their home countries. There are some amazing high end rentals in BA. Then again, they can be living well for half the price they paid at home.

These folks can eat in top restaurants much more often than they could at home. Weekends in Mendoza, Floripa, Vina, Bariloche. Longer vacations all around LAM.

They can collect wine and art at a fraction of the price they could at home. They can have a full time maid for the price of a once per week cleaner at home. They never wait on line. They can container in big screen TVs and electronics. They have guard houses outside their homes and cars to take them everywhere.

What's not to like? They may not stay forever, but it can be lots of fun for a while.

I think Baires used to work for young expats, but that's gone for now. The expats we'll now see are the ones who come with good jobs and foreign currency salaries as the peso continues to be devalued.

 

[citygirl]

I know I can live for 50% less in Baries on my US income than I can in SF. And i think NYC is more expensive than SF. And london is more than NYC. These are cities many on this board insist Baires is as expensive as.

.

I don't know anyone here has said that overall BsAs is as expensive as San Fran, London or NYC overall if you're earning in foreign currency.

My comment is that for *many* things at this time- I pay more here in dollars than I did/do in NYC in dollars (most groceries, vacations, flights, car rental, health insurance, clothes, housewares, electronics, mid-range restaurants, buying a car, etc).

I believe the last comparison I saw back in 2010 was that BsAs was in concrete terms, more expensive than a Portland, Oregon or other mid-sized city in terms of what your dollars can buy.

Rent is absolutely lower in dollars here (although I don't think 80% lower). High-end restaurants are lower. Domestic help costs less. TAking subway/bus is much cheaper.

Overall, my quality of life is good BUT I earn in dollars. Its a lot less good than it was 3 years ago thanks to inflation but certainly I am very thankful.

 

[MizzMarr]

Well, Jb5, I'm glad you clarified your position as before I thought we were just talking about your average person living within one of the local economies of the aforementioned places, not someone with a good job earning foreign currency. That changes everything, and of course based on those parameters I totally agree with you. The kind of people you're talking about are already wealthy. Sure, the wealth goes farther here (even with a weekend trip for two to Bariloche costing nearly $800 US in travel alone, which is certainly expensive by my estimation of travel for a weekend away). That said, I'd think you can probably take those weekend trips a lot farther in Europe... but you'd likely still be comfortable living just about anywhere.

I guess it all depends on what you want and what you like. Personally I can't imagine shelling out $3-4k dollars or more a month for an "amazing high end" rental here in Buenos Aires when I know what I could get for an equivalent amount in the States or elsewhere (either renting or buying), but I also don't have that kind of money to just throw around (and doubt I would if I did). You're absolutely correct that the character of the expat coming here has changed... personally I find it unfortunate and I miss the color that the other category of (bohemian) expats added to the character of the city, but it is what it is. Once again, perspective is relative and it all depends on what kind of experience you're after.

 

[sergio]

Those who think BA is cheap are not living on the local economy. Even with a good professional job (one that most Porteños would envy) in pesos, they couldn't afford lots of the things they take for granted in the US. Just try buying a nice car, furnishing a house or flat, traveling in or outside Argentina (have you checked out the cost of a January/February vacation in Punta del Este, Pinamar or Carilo?) etc. Anyway, it is just a matter of time before these arguments end. At 30% annual inflation it won't be long before even the most diehard expat apologists start to gripe. Will BA be cheaper than New York, or wherever, in one year? Two? Cheaper when prices jump 30 or 60%? And then what? What will BA be like when almost everyone is earning a small fraction of 1st world salaries with almost everything more expensive?

 

[John.St]

I have detailed budgets reaching back to February 2001.

To me it is extremely simple: In Mendoza I live a 530,000 pesos/year (home country price) life for 110,000 pesos/year - and the life style is soooo laid back.

E.g. 124 square meter 4 rooms + 15 sqm patio + 72 sqm terrace for AR$ 1,700/month + AR$ 200 gas, water, electricity, municipalidad, internet, at home the same would cost at least AR$ 10,000 and have no view of the mountains; a dinner in a first rate restaurant app. AR$ 120 and not 450.

It will take the h*ll of a lot of inflation to change that to a deficit, and in the last 3 months the inflati... - no, no, no, "price destortions" - has slowed significantly and as a matter of fact there has been a comparative deflation during May (basis: 2011.01.01 ), down from some 11.2% mid April to app. 8.6% May 31 (but then, it's election year).

 

[sergio]

$1,700 pesos for a house is a very low rent in BA. I don't know any expat paying a house rent like that. My expensas on a not very big flat are around 1,300 pesos a month. Either you have a very good deal or Mendoza is a LOT cheaper than BA. Anyway I can not speak for Mendoza. I was talking about BA. Comparing it to the US (was that your comparison?) is also relative. A very nice home in West Virginia in or near a college town and a view of beautiful mountains might very well cost the same that you are paying in Mendoza.

 

[John.St]

$1,700 pesos for a house is a very low rent in BA. I don't know any expat paying a house rent like that. My expensas on a not very big flat are around 1,300 pesos a month. Either you have a very good deal or Mendoza is a LOT cheaper than BA. Anyway I can not speak for Mendoza. I was talking about BA. Comparing it to the US (was that your comparison?) is also relative. A very nice home in West Virginia in or near a college town and a view of beautiful mountains might very well cost the same that you are paying in Mendoza.

I do have a good deal, owner is an old friend of a good friend of mine, delighted at not having an Argentino renter who may disappear owing 2 months of rent plus expenses (her experience twice, and that of other acquaintences too). I also pay the same rent in 2 consecutive years, no raise in year 2, we calculated an average.

Mendoza - the provinces as a whole - is much cheaper than BsAs, one more reason to flee.

 

[jb5]

Sergio, I don't think anyone is saying Baires is cheap for the locals. I for one don't understand how people make it here on local salaries.

This is an expat board, however, and what I've been talking about is the comparative costs for expats living on foreign currencies.

I don't think it will become much more expensive for this group. In my opinion, if inflation continues at this rate, the peso will continue to lose value. And AR is do for a correction....

 

[sergio]

I do have a good deal, owner is an old friend of a good friend of mine, delighted at not having an Argentino renter who may disappear owing 2 months of rent plus expenses (her experience twice, and that of other acquaintences too). I also pay the same rent in 2 consecutive years, no raise in year 2, we calculated an average.

Mendoza - the provinces as a whole - is much cheaper than BsAs, one more reason to flee.

Well that explains it. Your situation - low rent unchanged for two years - is unusual. Low cost of living in Mendoza province. I could say the same thing if I were renting a beautiful house with a fabulous view from a friend in West Virginia. Cheap rent and low cost of living in a less populated part of the US. And I might even be in a college town with a lot of activity.