Death of Peronismo? We can only hope.

jaredwb

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In reading all the posts about Kirchner, it's clear there is a divide. I was here when he "took" power and have watched the already large divide grow between the "workers" (unions) and the rest of us.

While I don't celebrate anyones death and find it offensive when others do, in my personal view, this is a positive for Argentina.

CFK is not strong enough nor smart enough to continue down his radical path, and let's make no mistake...Nestor WAS the "real" President.

So, my question...do you think his death will usher in a new era of policies and finally move the country away from the disastrous peronismo that has stifled Argentina investment, world standing, and reputation.
 
I am not one to shy away from opinions but I do not have a clue about the future direction of Argentina in the wake of NK's death. Of this I am certain: There will be much jockeying for power. Buckle up.
 
No, I am sorry to say there is not likely to be a serious change. There are too many ignorant people in the country, too many people used to the patronage system, to the pathetic handouts. The stock market jumped at the news of Kirchner's death. Why? Getting him out of the picture gave a glimmer of hope that the country could adopt a more rational policy that would attract investors rather than scare them off. On the surface things are 'better' than they were during the crisis but in reality they are worse -- education continues to decline, there is a huge class of people dependent on state handouts. The divide between classes is greater than ever. Do you think that the pueblo will vote for someone who has sane ideas about creating a sustainable economic system, someone who would rebuild relations with the 1st world and not the likes of Chavez and Morales? In Argentina the people with the most education, those with the highest qualifications are despised by the political establishment. Do you think Congress is made up of educated people? It would be interesting to research how many have EARNED degrees. There have been some doubts about the authenticity of Cristina's law degree - or Duhalde's right to use the title "Doctor".
 
sergio said:
On the surface things are 'better' than they were during the crisis but in reality they are worse -- education continues to decline
Don't know if this is Kirchner's doing, but, to me, the lack of education (or, at least, the lack of enthusiasm for it) is one of the very worst problems Argentina faces.
 
Absolutely there are true problems for Argentina. I really love the country and have such high hopes for it but unfortunately the longer I live here the less hope I have for systematic fundamental change. Corruption is rooted in society here and that will be difficult to change.

The educational system is very bad here. Even at the private school level it's quite bad. Case in point, I had a client living in Argentina 4 years with his family. They went to good private schools here. When he moved back to the USA last year, one of his kids had to fall behind a full grade level. That's how bad the schools here are compared to first world countries.

Argentina is a very inefficient country. The judicial system is broken as well.

Don't get me wrong. There are lots of positives about the country but if you are talking fundamental systemic change....I'm not sure many of us will see that in our lifetimes. A true shame because this country has tremendous potential.
 
texxaslonghorn said:
sergio said:
On the surface things are 'better' than they were during the crisis but in reality they are worse -- education continues to decline
Don't know if this is Kirchner's doing, but, to me, the lack of education (or, at least, the lack of enthusiasm for it) is one of the very worst problems Argentina faces.

Agreed. It's the gravest problem. Argentina used to have a universally good to high standard of education. That's been on the decline for years but it really accelerated under the Kirchners. When I first came to BA we didn't have all the street people, the cartoneros. The villas were much smaller. Now there is an army of kids who don't go to school. The quality of public school teachers gets worse and worse. A friend is principal of a state school and has told me many stories of the problems. He speaks English fluently, being Anglo-Argentine. One day he sat in on an English class. The teacher was teaching incorrect grammar. The principal told her that she was to see him in his office the next morning with the English dept. head present. He informed her that the meeting would be conducted in English. The next day she requested a transfer to another school. They never had the meeting.
 
sergio said:
texxaslonghorn said:
sergio said:
On the surface things are 'better' than they were during the crisis but in reality they are worse -- education continues to decline

Agreed. It's the gravest problem. Argentina used to have a universally good to high standard of education. That's been on the decline for years but it really accelerated under the Kirchners. When I first came to BA we didn't have all the street people, the cartoneros. The villas were much smaller. Now there is an army of kids who don't go to school. The quality of public school teachers gets worse and worse. A friend is principal of a state school and has told me many stories of the problems. He speaks English fluently, being Anglo-Argentine. One day he sat in on an English class. The teacher was teaching incorrect grammar. The principal told her that she was to see him in his office the next morning with the English dept. head present. He informed her that the meeting would be conducted in English. The next day she requested a transfer to another school. They never had the meeting.

I would totally agree with this statement. I do think that the deterioration of the educational system under the Kirchners has accelerated over the years.

My sister-in-law goes to a private school here and I laugh sometimes at the situations she is in. For instance, during the World Cup she said that for many days the teachers brought TV's in the classrooms and forced the kids to watch the games not studying at all. Granted, I realize soccer is important in this country but where else would you hear of something like this?

Add into the mix..... the obscene inflation increases in the private schools. I know because I pay her tuition bill personally. I think in the past year it's gone up about 40%.

It sounds like there is a big divide on this board between pro Kirschner and anti-Kirchner. I don't think that really matters and maybe even healthy to hear both sides of the story. The world would be a dull place if we all had the same opinions.

I can tell you that I think Peron ruined Argentina. Some of the laws in place are totally crazy. Those of you that don't own companies here probably don't understand some of the crazy benefits in place. Try firing an employee here and seeing how many obstacles are in place or how much you have to pay them. It's just not an efficient country.

In one building I own a few properties in, the building is new. The doorman probably has only been working about 7 months. His salary is 4,000 pesos per month. For whatever reasons, the administration decided to fire him. After only working 7 months, they had to pay him around 50,000 pesos! All for only working 7 months. In another building where I own a unit, a doorman that has been working there forever, was caught entering an apartment and fired. I can't remember the amount he got but the building was forced to pay him a tremendous amount even though they had cause to fire him. Then I can give examples of other company owners I know that have fired employees for cause. My favorite is a big construction company in the South of Argentina. Actually the owner is friends with Kirschner as they are from the same town. He had an employee driving a company vehicle that was caught driving drunk. They fired him and he hired a lawyer and they still had to end up paying him some big settlement.
 
Really, some very good comments on education. A good education system is essential in a democracy. Informed and educated voters make better decisions. With poor education you end up with all kinds of problems including politicians who take advantage of poor and uneducated voters. Examples of this are apparent throughout Latin America. Improving the education system here should be at the top of priorities here.
 
gouchobob said:
Really, some very good comments on education. A good education system is essential in a democracy. Informed and educated voters make better decisions. With poor education you end up with all kinds of problems including politicians who take advantage of poor and uneducated voters. Examples of this are apparent throughout Latin America. Improving the education system here should be at the top of priorities here.

Bob,

I totally agree with you. An excellent educational system is essential as you mentioned. The problem in many of these countries like Argentina where there is tremendous corruption, especially at the political level is that they enjoy those high levels of uneducated masses. Just look at the Kirchners and all these poor, uneducated masses they would bus in to stage protests. The highly educated and articulate and wealthier are harder at pulling the wool over their eyes than someone that isn't educated and has no assets that would gladly take a handout or vote all for a sandwich and some pesos.
 
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