Do fears of crime in Argentina reflect reality?

[jimdepalermo]

having heard most of my friends' stories about how they or someone they know was a victim of a crime, I understand the fear a lot more now.

At a dinner party in New York in the mid-90s with a dozen or so friends complaining about crime, I took a poll. "How many of you actually know someone who's been the victim of crime?" All but one or two raised their hands. "Who here has personally experienced crime?" Only 2 replied. Both crimes reported were street robberies at night in good neighborhoods, where the victims lost wallets, money, and jewelry.

Some months ago, in a similar situation here with a mixed band of porteño and expat friends, I tried the same poll. Again, all but 2 at the table knew people who had been victims of crime. And again, only 2 - both porteños - had actually experienced any crime. OK, I could admit to being the 3rd victim if you include my lost - probably pickpocketed - DNI.

Btw, both of the crimes cited involved driving nice cars, and both happened in very good neighborhoods. Neither resulted in any physical harm, and neither cost the victims more than the deductible on their car insurance. In one case, a friend left her very expensive designer purse on the passenger seat of her car when she double-parked at 3 PM in Aguero near Arenales and a thief bashed the passenger window and ran off with the purse. The other was a car-jacking in Palermo Hollywood late on a weekend night. The car was found the following day with only minimal damage.

 

[BlahBlah]

Are you really trying to tell that almost no crime happens in BA?

 

[jimdepalermo]

Are you really trying to tell that almost no crime happens in BA?

No, BlahBlah, I would never claim that "almost no crime happens in BA." I was just passing along an anecdote concerning similar experiences and perceptions in New York and Buenos Aires.

I've tried to find reliable crime statistics for BA, without success. If anyone knows of a reliable source, let me know.

I did find a number cited "authoritatively" in several online articles, indicating the BA murder rate has risen to 4.5 killings per 100.000 population. For the record, this compares favorably to the US national average of 5.6, or San Diego (5), Colorado Springs (7), or San Francisco (14) - all considered safe, very livable cities by most yanquis.

By contrast, New York reports 6 murders/100.000 residents, Chicago 16, Washington 31, and Detroit 46 (or 10 times the supposed murder rate here).

Would we like to see crime rates approach zero? Of course. Could the Argentine justice system do a much better job? Without doubt. But is the situation worse here than in large US cities or in many European capitals? I really don't think so.

My bigger worry is that the local fear of crime, spurred on by the press and exploited by politicians, may lead to an authoritarian state that is much more likely to drive me from this city than any increase in street crime.

 

[BlahBlah]

Hopefully you believe your anecdote yourself

 

[BlahBlah]

This first world city cant even enforce a alcohol ban for one night every 2 years

But Luckily Argentina got 800 milion dollar to burn from the rest of the world to clean up the Riachelo. Seems like a good idea, clearly the 250.000.000 in the ninties is not enough

 

[soulskier]

I came across this on crime in BA
http://www.argentinepost.com/2009/06/new-study-shows-some-improvement-in-crime.html

 

[citygirl]

Well: I can only share my recent experiences:
1) Argentine friend's car was stolen, parked a block from my apt (libertador y Matienzo) - parked in front of a bank & in front of a building with 24 hr doorman. Not recovered.
2) Another Argentine friend was robbed (nice neighborhood in San Isidro) - 2 people broke into her house, held her at gunpoint & forced her to go with them to several ATMs until they finally left her on the side of the road.
3) 3 friends (expats) mugged and robbed at 3 p.m. on Juan B Justo - watch stolen and beaten up pretty badly.
4) Expat friend stabbed in the leg while someone attempted to steal her bike in San Isidro middle of the afternoon on a Sunday.
5) Expat friend mugged and stabbed in front on my apt on Libertador and Maure 8 p.m. - watch stolen and required stitches.
6) 10 p.m., on my way to dinner in Las Canitas, I saw a street kid hit a guy over the head with a 2 by 4 wooden board on Huergo (close to Chenaut).
7) Argentine friend of mine had his car stolen from outside his mom's apt in Las Canitas - Chenaut y Baez.

I do think there is a lot of hysteria but IMO, I think it has gotten a lot less safe in the last 2 years. I used to walk home alone at night, I no longer will. And I'm from a rather large city, I consider myself very street smart & take all the precautions, etc. 2 years ago, I didn't worry about it. Now I do, esp since a lot of the crimes I personally know about occured in my "safe" neighborhood.

 

[davonz]

Hi, I have been living here on and off since january 2007. After being here a couple of months my passport was pick-pocketed on florida st, and a week later an english friend was held up at knife point in san telmo. Then i didnt know anyone else who was effected by crime until august, when i was at retiro bus station and a group of guys tried to steal mine and a friends bags - lucky we saw what was going on.. Then in salta the same thing happened 2 months later to me. When i got back to BSAS 2 friends from Quebec had there backpack pulled off them while being chased down the street by 3 guys. An Aussie couple was robbed at gun point in Mendoza. A canadian girl had her handbag snashed at a restaurant. A swiss girl was robbed at knife point in palermo park. A friends hostel in recoleta was robbed at gun/knife point. Friends house broken into and maid assulted when they couldnt find an money. Friends parents car was car-jacked. Aussie friend was robbed at knife point.... these are just the ones i can think of off the top of my head.. I have known or meet alot of people who have been victims of crime here, and most has been in the last year. I also have friends that a diplomats and they tell me there is always people who come in to get replacement passports because of robberies.
Things do seem to be getting worse as the economy gets worse.
I have lived and worked in South Africa, Switzland, UK, US, Canada, NZ, AUS, Vanuatu, St Maartin, Belgium, Thailand and stayed in alot of countries for 3 months or more while travelling, and never before have i known personally so many people who have been victims of crime.. or for that matter myself. I think alot of the problem is the police dont appear to do anything about it. A good example is retio bus station, everyone knows it is a crime hot-spot, and there are police there, but they dont do anything to fix the problem.
In salta when the guy tried to steal my bag (there was 3, 2 distracting me while another went for my bag) i told him to **** off and got onto my bus, where i sat and watched them do the same thing to a young german guy, so i got off the bus and run and grubbed the theif, and yelled for the police. When the police finally did come, they asked a few question and then walked off with the guy (no handcuffs or anything) as if they were walking down to the pub.. I really dont think anything happened to him..

Anyways from my experience crime is on the rise, and seems to be alot worse than a couple of years ago, and isnt just effecting tourist, as local friends in hurlingham and escobar as saying the same thing..

 

[BlahBlah]

Well: I can only share my recent experiences:
1) Argentine friend's car was stolen, parked a block from my apt (libertador y Matienzo) - parked in front of a bank & in front of a building with 24 hr doorman. Not recovered.
2) Another Argentine friend was robbed (nice neighborhood in San Isidro) - 2 people broke into her house, held her at gunpoint & forced her to go with them to several ATMs until they finally left her on the side of the road.
3) 3 friends (expats) mugged and robbed at 3 p.m. on Juan B Justo - watch stolen and beaten up pretty badly.
4) Expat friend stabbed in the leg while someone attempted to steal her bike in San Isidro middle of the afternoon on a Sunday.
5) Expat friend mugged and stabbed in front on my apt on Libertador and Maure 8 p.m. - watch stolen and required stitches.
6) 10 p.m., on my way to dinner in Las Canitas, I saw a street kid hit a guy over the head with a 2 by 4 wooden board on Huergo (close to Chenaut).
7) Argentine friend of mine had his car stolen from outside his mom's apt in Las Canitas - Chenaut y Baez.

I do think there is a lot of hysteria but IMO, I think it has gotten a lot less safe in the last 2 years. I used to walk home alone at night, I no longer will. And I'm from a rather large city, I consider myself very street smart & take all the precautions, etc. 2 years ago, I didn't worry about it. Now I do, esp since a lot of the crimes I personally know about occured in my "safe" neighborhood.

If you own a car your chances of getting robbed are bigger and there is not really you can do about it. Even buying a small car like a gol or so won't really help

Same is more or less true for a home. Your chances of getting robbed are less if you live in an appartment. Wearing watches or jewelery on the street is also a risk factor

 

[citygirl]

Well, that is a fairly obvious statement - the more you have, the more likely you are to be robbed. I'm just pointing out that most of the people I know here have been a victim of a crime. (For better or worse, the majority tend to be robberies, the violent part only occurred in situations where the victim fought back).

I used to laugh at people who thought Bs As was dangerous. I certainly don't think it's the worst city in the world but from personal experience, I would say amongst people I know, there has been a marked increase in the number of crimes attempted/committed in the last year.

Again, knock on wood, I have never had anything happen to me but I don't carry a lot of cash on me, I don't wear expensive jewelry if I'm going out to a bar/club, I dont speak English in certain situations, etc. With precautions, this is still a safe city. But I think it's less safe than it was a few years ago.