Eager Salespeople

[Celia]

The hookers around here aren't even women!

 

[gusgutier]

Asking, first of all, sorry being in an expat site, let me tell you that so many times I see here the same critics and problems that we locals have.
If you notice, recenttly there was a tv advertisement as a parody of a customer "just looking". By the way, some shops are different to others.
Some days before, I listened in the radio as a joke that Constitucion must only be open from 8 am to 8 pm as a ghetto. it has become one of (if not the wosrt) the most ugliest part of the city. Of course Celia you, like me, can be cheated by inmobiliarias that change names for marketing. I don`t know your situation here but for you and all foreigners, there are other barrios cheaper than Palermo or Recoleta. I recommend Villa Crespo (now called Palermo Queens), Almagro, Chacarita, Paternal. They are quiet places with good communication.

 

[tangobob]

I don`t know your situation here but for you and all foreigners, there are other barrios cheaper than Palermo or Recoleta. I recommend Villa Crespo (now called Palermo Queens), Almagro, Chacarita, Paternal. They are quiet places with good communication.

I have posted before, about Almagro, as a foriegner there I just love the place. Almost every shop is helpful and friendly, and when I have asked for help I have even been given things gratis.
I regularly walk around Villa Crespo, Almagro and Caballito in the early hours, with my wife, and we have never felt in the least bit threatened.
This by the way is not a language thing, I am rubbish at languages, and whenever I manage to get something I want have to ask "como se dice es"

 

[Moxon]

Are there any better reasons to live in Palermo or Recoleta, in spite of recent posts that Palermo is full of tourists and Recoleta is full of geriatrics?

Not Palermo or Recoleta especially, no. There are still 45 other barrios in Capital Federal - you could probably take 4 or 5 more out for being a little too adventurous
for the average extranjero (nice places to visit but you wouldn't want to die there) but that still leaves a whole lot of city.

If I understand correctly some are advocating, perhaps as an escape from the usual degeneration of debate into warfare between pro and anti Argentine factions on these pages, an argument that things are the same everywhere, its all a bit of good and a bit of bad so therefore there is nothing to be said about anything. I don't think we have completely devolved into a greyish PoMordial soup of uniform consistency yet so I would prefer opinion and debate rather than a coma of relativism and yes according to a long running dispute on these forums some contributors may have ulterior motives in their ceaseless praising or panning of this city and? How does this differ from any other sphere of human interaction? One can follow the wise advice of elpanada and review previous posts to evaluate anyone's opinion.

I still agree with Sergio that the culture of commerce and interaction between retailer and customer is very much different here to what exists in much of the West. The impossibility of returns, the endless attention of sales assistants when browsing as mentioned, the complete incomprehension of some retailers (often the owners) that they may be expected to go the extra inch in order to make a sale, the venom encountered in certain establishments after some blissful moment of ataraxia has been interrupted by one's meddlesome presence. These might seem to be at odds with each other but I think they betray the same process - a fundamental mistrust between seller and buyer. I think this permeates great swathes of the commercial and financial spheres in Argentina and its not too hard to think of a few reasons why.

I can think of similar examples in other countries in Asia, Africa and South America and of course nowhere is it universal but one must be led to the conclusion that it is our rather unique Western cult of customer worship that is in reality unusual - this still makes it no less striking for a Western visitor here especially in the familiar surrounds of galleries, malls and high streets, I can vouch that it is somehow easier to digest when say trying to buy sunglasses in a tin shed in Nigeria.

I usually try to remind myself that this is a refreshing alternative to the have a nice day mantra which has emerged in the West and which so nauseates me and most of the time I can walk away philosophically with a wry smile, but yes there are days when it grates.

 

[tangobob]

Moxon, I have never said that "we have completely devolved into a greyish PoMordial soup of uniform consistency" the culture here is completely different, I accept that, but there are good and bad in all fields here as every where.
I can sight many examples of the good (I only choose the good because so many here choose to sight the bad) Like the guy on Scalabrini who, despite me telling him that I had no intention of buying yet, went through the prices of everything in his shop. Or the guy in Villa Crespo who ran down the road to fetch someone who spoke English to me after the sale was complete.
I do not have rose coloured glasses, if you search the forums you will find some where I have also complained, all I want to point out is that it is not all bad, just as it is not all good. There must however be some good reasons why so many people choose to come.

 

[Cath]

Hmmm, I don't reallly want to get into this, but that was decidedly not what I was saying at all. Every country is different, and no country is all good or all bad, and debate that implies as much is useful only for entertainment value, if that! I welcome informed and lively debate, but not the kind of personal and emotionally rather than intellectually founded personal attacks that often appear on this site. And perhaps you enjoy the debate, but about half the expats I know in this city no longer refer to this site because they were disgusted by the extreme antagonism often displayed here. So for the self-selecting few who can stand it, that's wonderful, but we are missing out on a huge variety of interesting and diverse opinions by taking our debate to such ridiculous extremes.

So yes, I agree, better debate than monotony, and I'm glad this site allows a space where people can disagree and wouldn't have it any other way. I was arguing for moderation, not for the other extreme.

 

[igor]

... rather than intellectually founded personal attacks ...

If you feel that you've been attacked, please report offending post(s) to moderator (click on red flag icon). Frankly, I don't see much that has happened since your previous message

Thank you all for the information! I actually had a far less overwhelming leather shopping experience yesterday. (12/28)

Actually, it would be nice if you could point out a couple of examples of "the extreme antagonism" you are talking about in the same way.

There are people who don't accept any kind of criticism and can not stand any other opinion but their own. Public forums are not for everybody. For some people writing a personal blog with comments feature turned off would be more appropriate form of self-expression.

 

[Moxon]

Moxon, I have never said that "we have completely devolved into a greyish PoMordial soup of uniform consistency"

No, not at all tangobob and I didn't mean to imply it. I enjoy your contributions to this forum and your humour. What I'm arguing against is the kind of whitewashing of opinion that is sometimes offered as a solution to a dispute here that seems to go well back before my time on these forums. I would prefer those with rose coloured glasses or dog poop coloured glasses to come and say what they think - give them the benefit of the doubt that they are giving these opinions in all sincerity and if anyone disagrees let them give their arguments. Yes this means we can get pages of yes you did - no I didn't like Python's argument clinic but barring the ejection of members for not contributing anything to the advancement of humanity, it's preferable to this interminable refrain of nothing is all good or all bad anywhere - of course not (although your apartment in Constitucion may be approaching absolute badness Celia) - people are giving opinions, anecdotes, experiences, it goes without saying that nobody is the ultimate arbiter of truth here. Let's get beyond this and actually discuss something.

 

[tangobob]

You are right that this is the place for opinions to come out, but I just wonder sometimes at the extremeness of those opinions, afterall nobody is forced to be here.
We have yet again wandered off topic (no doubt it was my fault again).

Cath you did not say where you were so pestered, I suspect it was on Florida. This seems to happen to everyone here, you are stuck in a tourist trap and they are determined to separate you from your money. I realise that leather goods are predominantly sold in these areas, but my advice, for what it is worth, is to go where the locals go. In Villa Crespo, Almagro, and Caballito, I (almost) always get good service in the shops. OK even here some places they will hound you or ignore you, but in general the prices are lower and I am treated well.