Epicenter of Pandemic in Latin America now becoming Argentina

[EL_TIGRE_de_Tigre]

The other thought that occurs to me is this: let's suppose that the whole thing turns out to have been greatly exagerated, an overreaction to the scenes of horror from places like Milan, Madrid, and New York. That in coming months the death rate falls even further below zero, and is even smaller amongst age cohorts under 70. That treatments continue to improve. That "long-termers" are comparatively few in number. That even second waves in the northern winter do not lead to overwhelmed health systems. If those things happen (I am not predicting they will, but they may), by the first anniversary of the major lockdowns in March next year, the pandemic will be something of a memory for most. The media will have become bored. Other major global issues will have emerged (like, for example, election chaos in the US). But there probably will still be no effective vaccine. What do the countries that are closed to the world, have had very little or no virus, but still live in fear of something the rest of the world has not only learned to live with but has more or less forgotten, do?

I have lived my life, more or less the same through all of this.

It's impossible to enter most places without a face covering, so I wear one, only because they have what I need.

I carry some disposable gloves & wet wipes with me should I need to touch a common surface which is rare but it does happen.

Other than that, and believe me I find what I am doing to be very inconvenient, nothing has changed for me.

 

[GMXam]

While death is certainly the worst possible outcome, we’ve yet to understand the longterm effects of having contracted COVID-19. Two people in my closer circle had contracted it in May, have recovered from COVID-19 (meaning they now test negative for the active virus), however neither of them have returned to their normal physical activity due to not having the energy to sustain physical activity. One in their 40’s, the other in their 50’s; both physically fit. One is a runner (marathons, etc.) and the other is a weight lifter. The runner can’t even go for a long walk. Doctors can’t provide any insight because this is a new-to-humans virus strain. Armchair politics aside, we still don’t know what the best approach to dealing with the pandemic was because it is not in the past, yet. What we know now is that wearing a mask properly reduces the spread when social distancing from others is difficult. It sucks everywhere, no matter the approach, because the risk of contracting it is still there, and you don’t know if or how you as an individual will recover from it if you get it. Hoping everyone takes responsibility for their health and safety and respects others enough to keep their distance and wear a mask.

 

[GMXam]

One more thing to add...several of my colleagues in NY have had family members die alone in hospitals over the past several months. I can’t even imagine being on any side of that scenario (victim, family member, or healthcare professional), but I do know I don’t want to experience it first hand nor do I want to contribute to anyone else having to. Best wishes to everyone.

 

[dsp27]

It's all about optics. People die each and every day from a lot fo things. Old age, the fue, traffic accidents, cancer, etc. Here we are focused on one single cause while completely neglecting anything else. While strict quarantines may (temporarily) extend the lifespan of some potential victims, it oftentimes will shorten the lifespan of others -- mostly cancer patients -- that are forced to postpone treatment. Populists like Fernandez love to put maps and charts on (usually wrong and misleading) but reality is we won't know how many "excess deaths" there were for another year at least.

Just look at the excess deaths in France due to the heath wave in 2003. It killed more elderly people than Covid 19 so far.

 

[FrankPintor]

The Financial Times was able to calculate the excess deaths this year for quite a few countries (https://www.ft.com/content/a2901ce8-5eb7-4633-b89c-cbdf5b386938, they seem to have stopped updating the country and city charts), unfortunately here in Argentina the latest death statistics seem to be from 2017. I can well believe that there isn't any excess death here though, getting millions of Argie drivers off the roads must have done wonders for everyone's health.

 

[antipodean]

The other thought that occurs to me is this: let's suppose that the whole thing turns out to have been greatly exagerated, an overreaction to the scenes of horror from places like Milan, Madrid, and New York. That in coming months the death rate falls even further below zero, and is even smaller amongst age cohorts under 70. That treatments continue to improve. That "long-termers" are comparatively few in number. That even second waves in the northern winter do not lead to overwhelmed health systems. If those things happen (I am not predicting they will, but they may), by the first anniversary of the major lockdowns in March next year, the pandemic will be something of a memory for most. The media will have become bored. Other major global issues will have emerged (like, for example, election chaos in the US). But there probably will still be no effective vaccine. What do the countries that are closed to the world, have had very little or no virus, but still live in fear of something the rest of the world has not only learned to live with but has more or less forgotten, do?

This is my concern. The next time this happens (and there will be another pandemic and new disease in the future) people will point to this experience and yell “boy who cried wolf”. Especially in places like Argentina that suffered needless and ineffective political measures for extended periods of time.

 

[antipodean]

I try to refrain from armchair quarterbacking especially with this pandemic so I don't want to comment on whether the strategy was good or bad here, but it was always a mystery to me as to why Fernandez had to do his bi weekly "look at how bad everywhere else is performing compared to us" song and dance, no matter how well Argentina was battling the virus there is no reason for opening yourself up to potential ridicule if the tide turns which it appears to be doing.

And now, when it all goes to hell, it is a prerecorded message using a voice that sounds like it is Siri talking.

 

[Renzi]

It's all about optics. People die each and every day from a lot fo things. Old age, the fue, traffic accidents, cancer, etc. Here we are focused on one single cause while completely neglecting anything else. While strict quarantines may (temporarily) extend the lifespan of some potential victims, it oftentimes will shorten the lifespan of others -- mostly cancer patients -- that are forced to postpone treatment. Populists like Fernandez love to put maps and charts on (usually wrong and misleading) but reality is we won't know how many "excess deaths" there were for another year at least.

Just look at the excess deaths in France due to the heath wave in 2003. It killed more elderly people than Covid 19 so far.

Those making the "people are going to die anyway" argument are just advocating Social Darwinism and should just admit it, rather than dressing it up with colorful scatterplots and false equivalencies. How are heatwave deaths relevant? Heatstroke isn't a communicable disease.

Most of the anti-quarantine talking points have been coming from right-wing pro-business think tanks, not the medical community. And by the medical community, I don't mean the WHO, which is a very politicized organization, but expert epidemiologists around the world who have been unanimous that some form of quarantine for the sake of containment was necessary and largely effective. How some politicians implemented it is another matter entirely.

 

[Somewhereinba]

Those making the "people are going to die anyway" argument are just advocating Social Darwinism and should just admit it, rather than dressing it up with colorful scatterplots and false equivalencies. How are heatwave deaths relevant? Heatstroke isn't a communicable disease.

Most of the anti-quarantine talking points have been coming from right-wing pro-business think tanks, not the medical community. And by the medical community, I don't mean the WHO, which is a very politicized organization, but expert epidemiologists around the world who have been unanimous that some form of quarantine for the sake of containment was necessary and largely effective. How some politicians implemented it is another matter entirely.

You dont need to be a doctor to know that locking people inside their homes is a good strategy for stopping virus spread. The issue is there are consequences doing this on the social and economic side. The medical experts do not understand these consequences so the discussion should represent all sides.

 

[semigoodlookin]

I am not anti-quarantine, but I am anti-lockdown and particularly against the way Argentina has botched its way through this pandemic. Others too, but I live here, so.