Expats not happy, why stay?

[Fabe]

hi ,
I probably didnt read crefully enought when i replied. Thnink I came off as a sour puss.
Yes , i did that whole hoop jumping too . Special usda form, rabies shots , etc etc. Continental did not allow me to bring the cat in cabin. I would have much preferred that and did ask .
My dealings with said bandido were all in english. I do speak spanish , and rather well , however my language of choice is english.

I recently also chastised an accuataince of mine here . He too is from the states , and brought in several laptops for sale . Bewildered I asked him how he managed that ( bad experience taste still in my mouth ) he told me that it was easy and it only cost him a a200 dollar bribe. That enfuriated me , we are supposed to bring this country into the first world , not perpetuate the culture of corruption.
I do feel that , based on conversations , argentines are elated to know that some civil servant takes bribes , having someone that can speed up their paperwork , or whatever other process is like money in the bank . So sad

 

[HotYogaTeacher]

That's an interesting position Fabe, that we are "supposed to bring this country into the first world". How are we supposed to do that?

The people here, the voting, business operating, tax paying people will have to choose what kind of country they want. As an American I would feel hypocritical judging a corrupt system as the Lobbying and Campaign system in the states is nothing a pay for play system no matter what anyone say's. One member of the Banking Committee in DC went on a $20K junket to the Bahamas with Madoff Jr and was given $50K campaign contribution and the next thing you knew the bill that would have made his ponzi scheme illegal didn't pass the committee. Hmmm. First world...

I don't even know how many or how much the bribes were that were paid to customs on our behalf. We didn't ever speak to the customs officer ourselves but I am certain that was done because we were often asked for indeterminate amounts of money by our representative. The cost of bringing things in to the country is high if you pay the tax, less if you pay the bribe, end of story. People will do what is best for their pocket books inside the system that exists. In this system your friend found a way to use it effectively on his own behalf, that makes him adaptable in my book. Good on him. I can promise you from personal experience you'll be happier here if you don't think you can change these people. Like a marriage. People change when they want it badly enough to suffer the growing pains and not until then.

Peace Bro...

 

[steveinbsas]

The people here, the voting, business operating, tax paying people will have to choose what kind of country they want.

This kind of North American, Western European idealism has yet to prevail in South America. The voting, business operating, tax paying people here are not the ones in charge here. Individual Argentines like the customs agent are (unfortunately) working with impunity within a system they obviously have no power or, in a case like this, desire to change.

I don't even know how many or how much the bribes were that were paid to customs on our behalf. We didn't ever speak to the customs officer ourselves but I am certain that was done because we were often asked for indeterminate amounts of money by our representative.

Just who's ultimate interest do you think your representative had in mind as you paid and paid and paid? How much do you think actually went to the customs officials you were willing to bribe? You'll probably never know for certain, will you?

The cost of bringing things in to the country is high if you pay the tax, less if you pay the bribe, end of story....In this system your friend found a way to use it effectively on his own behalf, that makes him adaptable in my book. Good on him.

Isn't bribery something to deplore rather than congratulate?

People will do what is best for their pocket books inside the system that exists.

They sure will. If you don't learn this going through customs, just see what happens when you buy or remodel an apartment here. Not all foreigners get taken advantage of, but far too many do, especially if they don't have good connections, speak the language, or give the impression that they think they are superior to the locals.

I can promise you from personal experience you'll be happier here if you don't think you can change these people.

The use of the expression "these people" sends out that superior vibe like no other.

 

[Fabe]

Perhaps changing the argentine way of life is reaching.
But how about not taking advantage or perpetuating that same corrupt system.
Sad that you applaud my friend for partaking in a criminal act.
I cannot nor will not compare the ways in wich this country and the USA are corrupt. Corruption is a global malady. Every time we partake in it , we perpetuate it . That cannot be a good thing.

I paid all my taxes and fees when i shipped my container . I did everything by the book. I would have saved nothing paying a bribe . Yet I was approached at every turn , extorsion was attempted on my person at every turn. I refuesed . My transaction was made all that more difficult. Yet I can say that I maintained my principals. I sleep well at night

 

[soulskier]

Fabe, some might argue, "when in Rome...."

 

[Fabe]

Soul , those then didnt read the moral behaviour clause......

 

[tangobob]

Fabe, some might argue, "when in Rome...."

What was the other one? "if I didn't do it someone else would have"

The great sayings of peoples without their own moral code.

Sorry I forgot "I was just following orders"

 

[soulskier]

All I was suggesting is if bribing is part of the culture and has been for many years, one might need to go along with it to ensure they get what they want. I by no means am saying it is right morally.

 

[DA]

I think your choice here in Argentina could be to put a little cash in a little crooks pocket or a big amount of cash in a big crooks pocket. Personally I don’t mind paying a small bribe if that is what it takes to get it done. If you are living in a different culture you have to accept it they way it is. And if this is the way they want it here deal with it.

 

[Fabe]

Dont lose sight that you are contributing to crime every time you bribe