Got into a scuffle with three chorros at Starbucks- will they seek revenge?

[dilmah]

It isn't so simple as why don't they just get a job and stop being lazy.

the whole concept of inheritance is brain damaged.
I understand working for people who earned their wealth themselves. This is fair.
I don't understand working for people who just were born into families who were wealthy for centuries. This is not fair.

In capitalism with inheritance the only way to prosper is to work for hereditary elites, to lick their asses and to make them even more prosperous.

 

[Quilombo]

It's a low cost of living for you, the rich expat. It's not low cost of living for people working entry level jobs, it's expensive.

This is important to remember, it's cheap in dollars, the average salary in Argentina was $71,363 in March 2021, or $432.50/month,
or $5,622.50 a year (13 months for aguinaldo). I think many of us would feel differently about things if that's what we had to live on.

However, that being said, I still think there's lots of opportunity here. My advise to Argentine teenagers would be to study computer
sciences and English, use the universal education system to get a degree, and work remotely for a foreign company that pays in
dollars or euros, and live like a king here on even something like $10/hour; sure as hell beats living in NYC/Boston/LA/Chicago, etc.
at $20/hour, and I'm willing to bet the same for many cities in Europea and Australia too.

The above works only if you're getting 3 meals a day, have running water, electricity, internet, and the means to afford rent/food/etc.
while studying, which, as discussed, is something that upwards of 20% of Argentines do not have, being classified as both under the
poverty line and indigent. This isn't unique to Argentina, I finished high school shortly after the Great Recession, and I knew kids who
had to drop out to work to support their families, in 2009...

 

[Greg S]

A nihilist, eh???

Realist, really. What else is there?

 

[Newman_ZA]

You are new here, aren't you?

Yes I am new here. I understand that I have not lived your or any Argentines experience for very long. I'm just tired of people (mainly expats) who shit all over Argentina while literally living in the country? Questions like "Why don't all Venezuelans go to USA instead of Argentina?" are so disingenuous. I just gave a list of reasons why someone from Venezuela would choose Argentina over USA. This same question could be asked to expats who have these terrible attitudes such as @Greg S "Why don't you just go back to your first world country if its so much better then?".

I know this is not the same but poverty and suffering is not the the same all over the world. Poverty here is very different from poverty in Venezuela or Africa. We came here to escape a very different type of crime and suffering.

Edit: I think I am getting off topic from this thread so I won't be replying here anymore as I don't have much to add about chorros in Starbucks in BA.

 

[Sequoia1321]

I hope this is sarcasm. USA is its own "Sh!t hole". Which country am I describing below?
Free healthcare,
Free education (primary to tertiary),
Spanish speaking,
Low cost of living,
Democratic,
Generally welcoming to immigrants,
Strong links to social protections.

Pretty much everything about Argentina (besides the economy) appeals to immigrants. Yeah there are huge issues with poverty and runaway inflation but you are atleast not going to be killed if you say something bad about the ruling party (whoever that may be at the time).

USA has major culture problems. As someone of Middle East decent I experience lots of hardship in Texas, and one of the main reasons I want to go to a different place. The fact that someone like Trump came to power is a sign of what I’m talking about, and these people may not be done yet. Pre WWII Germany was not a genocidal place either, but these things can go out of control where a backward portion of the population can take great power, and then not many people will dare to risk their lives to oppose it, and also the information people receive will get tainted as well when that happens. Many non-minorities are unaware of these threats because they’re not the victim of them, and that’s I think part of the reason why it can go out of control. There are lots of those types around, and there may be a general bad/low class/angry/violent type culture here. At the same time, places like New York City, California, etc., and certain cities and neighborhoods in Texas even, it’s very good. An American flag you see in California often looks very different in tone/spirit than a same flag you might see in Texas. Same flag basically, other than the ownership, culture, or people behind it I guess, yet looks/feels very different often for some reason. Healthcare is also an issue here. I for example didn’t have health insurance for a while because of the great cost, not sure how the costs are recently though. When I was young my parents immigrated from Iran to Germany, and then to USA, but lots of times I think staying in Germany would have been better. And if you think of leaving USA, it is one of only two countries in the world that will tax citizens even if they’re not a USA resident, with some exceptions that aren’t necessarily that great.

 

[Dougie]

USA has major culture problems. As someone of Middle East decent I experience lots of hardship in Texas, and one of the main reasons I want to go to a different place. The fact that someone like Trump came to power is a sign of what I’m talking about, and these people may not be done yet. Pre WWII Germany was not a genocidal place either, but these things can go out of control where a backward portion of the population can take great power, and then not many people will dare to risk their lives to oppose it, and also the information people receive will get tainted as well when that happens. Many non-minorities are unaware of these threats because they’re not the victim of them, and that’s I think part of the reason why it can go out of control. There are lots of those types around, and there may be a general bad/low class/angry/violent type culture here. At the same time, places like New York City, California, etc., and certain cities and neighborhoods in Texas even, it’s very good. An American flag you see in California often looks very different in tone/spirit than a same flag you might see in Texas. Same flag basically, other than the ownership, culture, or people behind it I guess, yet looks/feels very different often for some reason. Healthcare is also an issue here. I for example didn’t have health insurance for a while because of the great cost, not sure how the costs are recently though. When I was young my parents immigrated from Iran to Germany, and then to USA, but lots of times I think staying in Germany would have been better. And if you think of leaving USA, it is one of only two countries in the world that will tax citizens even if they’re not a USA resident, with some exceptions that aren’t necessarily that great.

The US certainly does have it's issues and problems. For immigrants to go for a few years and make some quick cash it's not so bad. There are many I knew of years ago making around $15 - 20 per hour cash working construction jobs. Many times, they rent out an apartment or small house together, save and send back a lot of cash back home to support their family, build a house back in Guatemala, buy livestock and are set for a while.

Most work very hard and are honest people. I think it's a net positive if they are "illegal" or not.

It's very easy to look at Argentina with rose colored glasses when you come here with money, and don't actually depend on the state for social protections, medical care, education, etc.

I'd suggest that Newman goes to Tucuman for a month with a $250 budget or Ramos Meija. Go to the public hospitals for a checkup, check out the schools, and live on that $250usd budget and tell us how he found the experience.

 

[JMHarris]

Also, a human being cannot be "illegal." A person's actions (living/working in a country without the proper documentation) may be illegal, but that person isn't illegal.

 

[mc kenna]

As valid as many of the points made in this thread, this is the prime example why it is so difficult these days to engage in any kind of conversation.
We went form some poor dude almost getting his phone stolen to , i'm in Tuscany and i don't care to who is better quality of poor and their differences to Venezuela to illegal immigration in the US to inheritance law to taxes outside the US to i don't like it when someone might know something about argentina and i'm not prepared to hear about it..........
In my opinion this thread ran its course. Oh and of course let's not miss the opportunity to mention Trump at least once..
Yep, i'm done, good day to you all.

 

[FrankPintor]

As valid as many of the points made in this thread, this is the prime example why it is so difficult these days to engage in any kind of conversation.
We went form some poor dude almost getting his phone stolen to , i'm in Tuscany and i don't care to who is better quality of poor and their differences to Venezuela to illegal immigration in the US to inheritance law to taxes outside the US to i don't like it when someone might know something about argentina and i'm not prepared to hear about it..........
In my opinion this thread ran its course. Oh and of course let's not miss the opportunity to mention Trump at least once..
Yep, i'm done, good day to you all.

Oh come on, Mr. Tortured in Tuscany, this was a good thread as far as it goes on this forum, mostly quite civil, I apologized to the OP for my initial thread hijack, and even afterwards it didn't seem to get out of hand. These changes in thread direction came as a result of something a poster said, it wasn't random as far as I could see, if you like you can see it as evidence of a lively forum where people want to weigh in with their opinions (and a bunch of newish posters seem to have done so). You could ask for a moderator to try to disentangle the subtopics, but it's going to be too much trouble I think. My personal feeling is that the forum is more active than when I arrived here 4 years ago and that's not bad.

Of course several subtopics end up in mutual incomprehension, at times it's better to let things go rather than be sucked into an online argument. I did (silently) appreciate the irony in posters praising Venezuelan immigrants who spent the last 8 years under Madurismo with the unfortunate Argentinian youth who had 4 formative years of Macrismo and are somehow still disadvantaged by all the same things their Venezuelan cousins experienced.

 

[lunar]

... praising Venezuelan immigrants who grew up under Madurismo ...

Since Maduro has been in charge for 8 years, these must be pretty young immigrants.