Ground Zero Mosque

I am cutting and pasting someone else's letter to the ed. which I think is excellent. I added the explanatory footnotes.
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Obama's lecture on religion was a classic of brain-dead multiculturalism. Early in his remarks, he said:
"Here at the White House, we have a tradition of hosting iftars that goes back several years, just as we host Christmas parties, seders, and Diwali celebrations."
I confess, I had to look it up--Diwali is a Hindu festival. But who cares? Under multicultural dogma, these events are all the same. This was the climax of Obama's lecture:
"For in the end, we remain "one nation, under God, indivisible." And we can only achieve "liberty and justice for all" if we live by that one rule at the heart of every religion, including Islam-that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us."

This is revealing: the ultimate destination of multiculturalism is platitudinous stupidity. All religions, Obama tells us, are really the same, and can be summed up in the Golden Rule. Actually, there is no religion that can be reduced to the Golden Rule, least of all Islam. Islam does not enjoin believers to do unto infidels as you would have infidels do unto you. On the contrary! Islam tells its followers to subdue infidels; to kill them; to, at best, reduce them to dhimmitude. The Golden Rule is antithetical to Islam. Here is a thought experiment: compare HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:176]* with the parable of the good Samaritan.**

Multiculturalism, in short, reduces its adherents (like President Obama) to a low intellectual plane. If you really think that all religions are the same, and they all exemplify the Golden Rule, then you won't understand the point of Cordoba House.
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* Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight wi the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'

** Luke 10:30-37 Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he traveled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, ‘Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.’ Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?" He said, "He who showed mercy on him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."
 
But no, seriously, try to detach the proud banner of ignorance from yourself for a second, and learn the difference between a religion and a terrorist group successfully terrorizing the western hemisphere.

Also, learn that sometimes it is normal for the little chickens to come back home to roost.[/quote]

So I guess you fall into the American brought 9/11 upon themselves crowd..."chickens come home to roost" PATHETIC!

And I was not attacking Islam as a religion (might want to try reading at a 5th grade level), though one could argue that the religion preaches bigotry, hatred, and murder and these fine traits are carried out more often than not in Islamic countries. How about Sharia law, that's a fun one.

Having had the privilege of living in an Asian country with a very large Muslim population, I've seen first hand what a fine religion Islam is. I attended the Ramadan celebrations, went to a couple weddings, and have good friends that practice Islam.

The problem isn't Islam as a religion. The problem is erecting a building in a place that most Americans view as a sacred reminder of where 3000 people were murdered at the hands of Islamic Extremists.
 
OH! THE SYMBOLISM! America's spirit in the face of terror! It's that why Ground Zero, 9 years later, is just a fenced hole in Manhattan? Besides, isn't it a christian thing to do to turn the other cheek?

Anyway, that's how you socialists think, the masses' whims are more important than the property owner's rights...
 
Here's another interesting NY Times Op-ed piece from the weekend:

OP-ED COLUMNIST: How Fox Betrayed Petraeus

The rage over the “ground zero mosque” is not motivated by a serious desire to protect America, but by a desire for an election-season payoff.

http://nyti.ms/91lJzU
 
Personally I think people should be able to build their Mosque where they want, but i'm sure this will somehow be spun into " it's Obama's fault because he's a secret Muslim " or something of that nature.
 
First of all, there is something called freedom of religion. It's in an amendment to the document called the Constitution that you might have heard of.
Also, not forgetting the fact there already is, a mosque near ground zero. They're only planning to build a new one.
Do you really think we should blame all Muslims for what happen on 9/11 (supposing Muslims did do it)? If so, then don't you think they shouldn't build churches in Iraq and Afghanistan then either?
And where were you people when the dying first responders were protesting? You don't care about the victims of 9/11, you are only using them to further your racist agenda.
 
orwellian said:
First of all, there is something called freedom of religion. It's in an amendment to the document called the Constitution that you might have heard of.
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No one seriously questions the implications of the 1st amendment. If there is compliance with local zoning/building codes any religious structure is "legal." The issue is broader than that. It involves the propriety of a mosque (and Cordoba will house a mosque for Muslims only unlike the non-denominational prayer center in the pentagon) so close to the site of the most horrific attack on USA soil by what is almost universally agreed was a cadre of so-called Muslim extremists.
orwellian said:
Do you really think we should blame all Muslims for what happen on 9/11 (supposing Muslims did do it)?
Click to expand...

This is a more incisive question. All Muslims are not culpable for what happened on 9/11, but the supremacist belief system of all Muslims, aka Islam, is responsible for what happened on 9/11.

The Al Qaida mujahadeen who executed 9/11 were all pious Muslims who could easily justify their acts with reliance on unambiguous interpretations of Islam's religious texts and authorities, e.g. the Quran, hadith, sira. The Islamic sources make clear that engaging in violence against non-Muslims is a central and indispensable principle to Islam, not the least of which sources are Quran verses 9;29 and 9;50:
9;29:
"Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued;
9;50:
Then when the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush.

Islam is less a personal belief system than it is a political ideology, an ideology that is patently intolerant and supremacist, an ideology that separates the world into believers and infidels, an ideology that obliges all Muslims to engage in jihad in order to establish a global Islamic theocracy governed by sharia law.

In anticipation of argument... yes, there are contradictory siras in the Quran, ( i.e., no compulsion in religion, etc) but all Islamic scholars agree that based upon the principle of abrogation the earlier siras, to the extent they contradict the latter (like 9;29 and 9;50), are "trumped" by these subsequent ones.
Yes, there are bellicose passages in the bible, but they are uniformly situational and do not compel perpetual violence against those of other faiths as does Islamic doctrine and as that doctrine is preached by so many contemprorary Wahabi imams.
Yes, Christians did bad things during the Crusades and just as yes, the marauding Muslims did equally bad things as they conquered the lands those crusading Christians fought to regain. Ultimately, two wrongs don't make a right. What is critically important is how the religious doctrine is currently dispensed and what kinds of actions it motivates, not how it may have been interpreted many centuries ago.

Not all jihad is violent in nature, but all Muslims, be they Wahabi pilot of a hijacked plane or Sufi Imam, are in deed compelled to seek the establishment of the global theocracy governed by sharia. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf no doubt condemns the acts of 9/11, but his publications expressly champion the incorporation of sharia into western society. And one wonders why amid the storm of controversy, he cannot simply come out and reverse his position on Hamas and the 9/11 culpability of the US (remember, this was pre-Iraq and pre-Afghanistan war). One also wonders why he maintains board membership on Perdona Global Peace Org with Matathir, the ex-President of Malyasia, a notorious, outrageously outspoken anti-west, anti-semite. Perdona was the largest financial backer of the Mavi Marmara.[/quote]

orwellian said:
If so, then don't you think they shouldn't build churches in Iraq and Afghanistan then either?
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Sorry, I do not comprehend this.

orwellian said:
And where were you people when the dying first responders were protesting? You don't care about the victims of 9/11, you are only using them to further your racist agenda.
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Islam is NOT a race. The Arabs of Gaza probably have more genetic material in common with the Jews of Sderot than they do with their fellow Muslims in Iran. The racist accusation is a demagoguic red herring. Ironically, it is Islam itself, through the example of its perfect prophet, that allows slavery, typically of black-skinned peoples.

If you want to talk about bigotry, consider the words of the great Islamic scholar, Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, author of a 700 page scholarly treatise rationalizing Muslim Jew hatred, Banu Isra’il fi al-Qur’an wa al-Sunna [Jews in the Qur’an and the Traditions]. For this scholarship Tantawi was named Grand Imam of Al-Azhar University in 1996, a position he still holds. These are the expressed, “carefully researched” views on Jews held by the nearest Muslim equivalent to a Pope—the head of the most prestigious center of Muslim learning in Sunni Islam, Sunnis representing some 85% of the world’s Muslims. And Sheikh Tantawi has not mollified such hatemongering beliefs since becoming the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar as his statements on the Jews as “enemies of Allah, descendants of apes and pigs” , the legitimacy of homicide bombing of Jews, or “dialogue” with Jews (just below), make clear.

" …anyone who avoids meeting with the enemies in order to counter their dubious claims and stick fingers into their eyes, is a coward. My stance stems from Allah’s book [the Qur’an], more than one-third of which deals with the Jews… wrote a dissertation dealing with them [the Jews], all their false claims and their punishment by Allah. I still believe in everything written in that dissertation."

p.s. I will discuss these issues with anyone able to support their arguments with authorites and reasoning. Claims like the allegation of racism or bigotry by those opposed to Cordoba are an example of unsupported nonsense. Please see above post spelling out the homophobic, misogynistic freedom crunching, oppressive nature of sharia law. It is those who support sharia that are the bigoted rightwingers.
 
orwellian said:
First of all, there is something called freedom of religion. It's in an amendment to the document called the Constitution that you might have heard of.
Also, not forgetting the fact there already is, a mosque near ground zero. They're only planning to build a new one.
Do you really think we should blame all Muslims for what happen on 9/11 (supposing Muslims did do it)? If so, then don't you think they shouldn't build churches in Iraq and Afghanistan then either?
And where were you people when the dying first responders were protesting? You don't care about the victims of 9/11, you are only using them to further your racist agenda.
Click to expand...


Alright tard...here's a question for you...how many churches have been built in Iraq or Afghanistan lately? Are you aware the Assyrian Christian community in Iraq, that had lived there for the longest time, has recently had to leave because of persecution? Do you know that, in fact, you're not allowed to build churches in Saudi Arabia, etc., and that Christian Copts in Egypt live under constant physical threat, threats of rioting, etc.?

My guess is you're not just being rhetorical...you probably did think that churches are being built all over Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., as we speak. You're deeply ignorant.
 
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