Gun Control: Rights, Responsibilities, And Privileges

[captainmcd]

I have been following this interesting thread and heated debate. Like almost everyone I was sickened by what happened in Newtown, and still feel bad and wonder what can be done. It does surprise me that when a similar incident happened about seven months ago in Norway there was an outpouring of international sympathy for the victims and their families, but no condemnation of the nation or its people, but when it happens in the United States there is an immediate condemnation of the country. Granted, it happens in the U.S. all too frequently. We all look for answers and want to place the blame somewhere.

I tend to look at this as a failure of our spiritual values, where we have not properly taught the sanctity of human life. As for making an attempt to get rid of guns, the position that most countries take, I think that would be impossible for many reasons, I can not immagine that a police search of everyone's home and confiscation of firearms of any type would be acceptable or successful. And would that make the country safe from violence? I doubt it.

There have been more tragic incidents during my lifetime caused by governments, and their use of guns. A number of wars for a start. Worse, when the government is able to disarm the public, they can, if under bad leadership, do things like rounding up citizens who oppose them and eliminating them. This has been done in Germany under Hitler, Russia under Stalin, China under Chairman Mao, and Cambodia under Pol Pot. For that reason I feel that if we want to disarm the public, we must also disarm the military and the police as well. I do not trust them to always protect us. They will protect their own interests, they are human.

 

[HenryNisental]

IN THIS RESPECT, I JUST PUBLISHED A BOOK TITLED "LA PORTACION OCULTA" (MERCADO LIBRE).
I THINK IT IS THE ONLY BOOK IN SPANISH ON THE SUBJECT

 

[EricLovesBA]

I've mentioned where I live three times in this thread, and you commented on two of those posts.

So Steve, you are from Australia, and from your standpoint, gun control is making things safer there. I would venture to say that the gun issue can be strongly influenced by context and personal experience. If we have some personal friend or relative who was shot, or who on the other hand protected themselves with a gun, or we witnessed a shooting, or if we did or did not grow up around guns, or around someone with a specific attitude about them, we will be sharply influenced by these things. Guns are a "life or death" type of issue, tapping into fight or flight emotions, and feelings about our mortality.

I am from the US, and have spent most of my life in medium to large sized cities, never in the suburbs. This is a kind of war zone - the war on drugs, with a persistent heaviness of law enforcement disproportionately enforced according to race and class. Admittedly if I am in a "bad neighborhood", I feel a little safer if there is a cop in line of sight, because I suppose my chances of getting robbed are less. Knock on wood, I have never in my life been the victim of a robbery. However, in poorer neighborhoods in the US, in situations I have seen, inappropriate use of force by the police is the norm, not the exception. I suppose they feel a lot of pressure, likely it's a management and policy issue. The war on drugs creates more problems than it solves, and I feel they are pressured into stirring up trouble, meeting quotas etc. . Traffic cops and especially troopers are disrespectful. I have been searched on two occasions solely on the basis of having long hair. My general impression of cops is that many of them feel the same about society as I do, that our government is oppressive, on a mad power trip, but they prefer to be on the grip-end of the gun, not at the barrel-end. They, and the military are trained to follow orders blindly. And I strongly feel that the great majority of them do so without the intervention of their own value system, and will do so in the future, regardless of whether those orders are moral or constitutional.

The US people are descendants of those escaping the religious persecution and tyranny of Europe. This was not so many generations ago in the grand scope of things, and thus I believe there is a thread of individualism there, perhaps even on a genetic level. Certainly we are taught to believe we are free, and I had a very naive and idealistic sense that we are a free nation for the first 20 or 30 years of my life. Now I see that freedom is something that you demand for yourself, and that there is no such thing as a stable government granting freedom to the people in perpetuity.

A large group of policemen makes me feel more uneasy on some level than a gang of criminals. Maybe it's because if the criminals are invading your rights, you can call the law. If the law is invading your rights, there is little recourse. To the core of my being I feel I have a right to defend my life and liberty against both. If they are armed (and believe me, criminals, military, and police will always be armed regardless of any law), then I have the right to be armed as well. These days it seems to be on the verge of a moot point, because the likelihood of me personally being armed with a predator drone seems very low. The balance of power between the military and the people in the US is looking more and more like the balance of financial wealth.

It's interesting that it's fairly recent history here in Argentina that political dissidents were getting thrown out of planes into the ocean. And yet I don't see this as a gun culture. Maybe it's kind of a numbers game? Can the people here actually overcome the military only using the pots and pans they're banging in the streets? In the US I don't think you can gather around the whitehouse and force the president to resign as happened here.

The central point of the right to bear arms has to do with protecting the people against a tyrannical government. High incidence of serial killers, suicide and mass murderers strikes me as symptomatic more of some underlying social problem. Taking away the tool is a quick fix and doesn't address the underlying issue, which I would say is something more akin to the breakdown of community, and the inability of people to control their own lives and enjoy the fruits of their creative work.

Would those in favor of disarming the citizenry also be in favor of disarming the military and police? I might go for that if I thought it could really be universally enforced. What do you think?

*update* during the time I was composing this, captainmcd stated some very similar views. kinda cool!

 

[Iznogud]

I wonder how many people per million go on a killing spree or commit crimes armed with firearms?
Would the resulting number be anywhere representative of the human species behaviour?

Are the recurring events in the US representative of the rest of the World? Don't think so.
Is the "success" of the UK and Australia worth following as an example? Why exactly? Not sold on those ones.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin.

 

[cbonanni]

I have been the victim of one robbery at gunpoint. Also one with a billy club. I was not armed either time. Has this influenced my opinion regarding the right to bear arms ? Most certainly. It also gets me refused for jury duty. There is no way I could be impartial to a criminal who used a firearm.

 

[PhilinBSAS]

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin.

I'll see your Ben and raise you!!

“This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.” ― Ben Elton, Bachelor Boys: The Young Ones Book

“The worst thing about being a great power is when you're not one any more. It takes centuries to get over it.” ― Ben Elton, Blast from the Past