Guns & daycare

[JWB]

Here is exactly where your approach breaks down. You write this statement about what you are going to do, as you sit at the computer with a calm mind. Unfortunately when you actually presented with a REAL fatal threat, it will be with the element of surprise and your reactions will be fuddled and slow - too late, you are dead. So in fact, the only times you will be able to react and get your firearm trained on someone is when you have the TIME to do so, which is mean that the other person is actually unarmed, or else they would have shot you already. So you just killed an unarmed person in a country that doesn't look to highly on gringos or particularly on gringos with guns.

The only times when killing another person is easy, is when you have the element of surprise in your favor or when the other person is not a threat. In both cases, you are a murderer. And i don't want to be a murderer in Argentina.

There are millions of people, mostly men, who like to puff out their chests and tell you about how they are 'going to protect themselves and their family from anyone who threatens them'. Yes, a nice sentiment perhaps, but in reality you will fail. Why? Because you have no experience with this type of thing. How you imagine the events transpiring in your head are not at all how they will actually ever play out. The number of people who have their firearms taken from them is astounding; including many many police officers!!!

Ok, let's go back to your original email...you said you were well versed in fire arms. After what you wrote above, I have to say that I don't quite believe you.

1st, why would I use my weapon on anyone that didn't pose a deadly threat? An unarmed person doesn't pose a deadly threat (in most cases). Thus, no reason to use deadly force.

2nd, have you killed someone? You seem to know an awfully lot of what it feels like and when or how it will go down.

3rd, so everyone that owns a weapon is going to "fail" in a self defense situation? Surely, you can't believe that.

Luckily, I have no 1st hand experience with the use of deadly force, however, I have made up my mind with 100% certainty that if someone threatens my life or my families like that I will absolutely use any and all means of protection I can.

 

[KarlaBA]

1st, why would I use my weapon on anyone that didn't pose a deadly threat? An unarmed person doesn't pose a deadly threat (in most cases).

Police officers have this exact scenario happen quite a bit more frequently than you would expect. They are trained to have this not happen, but it does. And you think that you would fare better?

2nd, have you killed someone? You seem to know an awfully lot of what it feels like and when or how it will go down.

Yes, I have witnessed such things.

3rd, so everyone that owns a weapon is going to "fail" in a self defense situation? Surely, you can't believe that.

The vast majority will fail. Particularly the people with no experience.

Luckily, I have no 1st hand experience with the use of deadly force, however, I have made up my mind with 100% certainty that if someone threatens my life or my families like that I will absolutely use any and all means of protection I can.

This statement is exactly what the unexperienced would say. You should really think about this a lot more critically. No one is the big tough guy they believe they are. Perhaps you are not aware that in the First World War, the vast majority of soldiers did not even fire their weapons as they were so struck with fear. Completely immobilized. Do you think they talked tough in the months leading up to going in the trenches? Do you think they were trained? None of it helped. Much of current military training is to make soldiers desensitized so that when the 'surprise' happens, they do not have a shot of fear jolt through their bodies.

 

[BASailor]

I wonder what the pro-guns opinate about the 4.000 kids getting their heads blown up by accident every year in the US.

Does it count?

It counts to me at least.

 

[JWB]

Except you are not a citizen (first flaw).

Funny thread, 3 levels in it:
- Guns as a sport, in a ranch, why not.
- Guns as self defense. Why not again (better get a shotgun though... a bad shot could hurt your neighbour).
- Guns as CCW: quite tricky to get here it seems (and if the guy holding the gun is immature/paranoid/doesn't have the intellectual ressources to use it or not = ouch).


I wonder what the pro-guns opinate about the 4.000 kids getting their heads blown up by accident every year in the US.

Does it count?

Gun deaths in the USA in 2010: 9000 (ALL gun related deaths). your "4000" number is total crap. In all, accidental gun deaths were about 650.

In 2007, 75,000+ deaths were tied to alcohol. I can only guess that number has increased dramatically since our youth are total morons.

Cigarette smoking causes about 1 of every 5 deaths in the United States each year.

Cigarette smoking is estimated to cause the following:

• 443,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
• 49,400 deaths per year from secondhand smoke exposure
• 269,655 deaths annually among men
• 173,940 deaths annually among women

Abortions: 1.2 Million per year (2008, and I'm sure more are happening now)


But yes, let's ban those evil guns because they're scary looking.

 

[xtrasback]

Why has this thread turned into a gun control debate?
And why self-defense is always associated with killing another human being? Where I'm from people carry firearms to protect themselves from game --bears, moose, mountain lions, etc--
Around farms, firearms are useful for varmint control/pest control and people around the world should also remember that shooting still is an Olympic sport and a recreational activity, not everyone lives in-or-around a big city and for those who do not, guns are almost a necessity.
Furthermore.. I know you're all prolly aware that there is no 'dangerous game' in Argentina, but I'd still not trade an afternoon of clay pigeon shooting with my dad on his ranch for anything in the world, see that is what I grew up doing for fun, and what I plan on keep doing whether you like it or not.

Why don't we try and help those who -like the original thread starter- had honest concerns about traveling with firearms and keep the whole "gun debate" out, or maybe start your own thread about it if ya feel like it.

Ha, no, I would like residency even without my guns but it is hard to give up what I once had.

Did you have a DNI or did you come in as a tourist when you brought your guns?

The RENAR page reads "Individuals who wish to go into the country with one or more firearms and their ammunition, with the proposal to perform hunting activity, sporting shooting or other legitimate purpose ...". I heard it's easy to bring in hunting guns but not self defense weapons like pistols, so I was surprised when I read that you brought in handguns.

hah tell me about it, I couldn't bring my ar15 and had to get rid of it before this last trip!
dual cit, but I only use my American passport when visiting, so as a 'tourist' I guess.
I always declared 'target shooting, hunting, recreational shooting' and never had a problem, handguns are just as easy to enter as shotguns or rifles please stop asking whoever told you that for advise, since it's pretty obvious that this person never went through the process himself, in fact from my perspective and previous experiences I quite frankly tell you that I'd MUCH rather fly with handguns over rifles or shotguns since I can always place them inside my checked luggage instead of having to pay extra for 'just' the guncase at check-in. (due to size, rifles or shotguns need to be checked separately in their respective guncase effectively adding an extra item to check)

Also remember to call the airline before your departure ask about any special requirements for traveling with a firearm, remember that now-a-days things change and even though the whole process is pretty straightforward you always want to make sure that you will be complying with all the required regulations.

 

[jp]

Gun deaths in the USA in 2010: 9000 (ALL gun related deaths). your "4000" number is total crap.

Your 9000 number is also total crap

There were 31,513 gun deaths in the USA in 2010
(http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_04.pdf)

You're about right on accidental gun deaths though.

 

[BASailor]

Your 9000 number is also total crap

There were 31,513 gun deaths in the USA in 2010

You're about right on accidental gun deaths though.

Even one death counts, at least to me.
And who are you, or anyone, to think that YOUR life is better than someone else's, and to think that you should kill to protect yourself or your goods?
To add a smile on this subject, I paste here something wrote by John Cleese;

5. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without sueing someone or speaking to a therapist then you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.