Has Anyone Had A Bank Account Closed Due To Facta

[sergio]

Has anyone had their Argentine bank account closed due to FACTA? This is the US law that requires banks outside the US to disclose their US citizen client assets.

 

[ElCordobés]

Not yet. One account in Uruguay (since 2010) and two in Argentina (since 2013).

 

[sleslie23]

Not yet. One account in Uruguay (since 2010) and two in Argentina (since 2013).

Is your Uruguayan account with BROU. My understanding is they are the only bank in Uruguay that will open/maintain accounts for US citizens. However, I'm curious if the information I got wasn't just B.S.

 

[ElCordobés]

Is your Uruguayan account with BROU. My understanding is they are the only bank in Uruguay that will open/maintain accounts for US citizens. However, I'm curious if the information I got wasn't just B.S.

Yes, yes it is BROU.

 

[ElQueso]

I have a friend who has an account with BROU. He is American. He opened the account a few years ago when it was easier (before FACTA), but they are giving him a very hard time about FACTA now. Any more with BROU, you will have to be in full compliance related to FACTA.

 

[el_expatriado]

When opening a new account I was given paperwork from the bank asking to relieve them of their obligation to maintain bank secrecy in order for them to comply with FACTA. This was Banco Macro, so you might want to try there if you are looking to open an account.

Looks like the banks here are already gearing up for FACTA compliance. It might be difficult soon for American citizens to get new bank accounts here. Best to open one now if you want one. I've heard from expats in Europe who can't get accounts because the banks don't want to deal with FACTA compliance and so they prefer not having American clients.

 

[ElCordobés]

I haven't looked into it yet....as it's a bridge I have not yet crossed. I switched my nationality at my Argie banks to Argentine. That clearly doesn't provide me any cover when it comes to being FBAR'd. Does that help in opening/maintaining an account? I have heard anecdotes from Europe that it doesn't matter...they will still treat you as a US Citizen for FACTA purposes regardless if dual.

 

[Girino]

I have heard anecdotes from Europe that it doesn't matter...they will still treat you as a US Citizen for FACTA purposes regardless if dual.

Why shouldn't they? You are still a US person even if you have another nationality. The only way would be if you had the sole Argentine citizenship and never disclosed that you also hold US citizenship.

Anyway yes, FATCA makes you not welcome in most banks. It is just more paperworks and we're all small fish.

 

[ElCordobés]

Why shouldn't they? You are still a US person even if you have another nationality. The only way would be if you had the sole Argentine citizenship and never disclosed that you also hold US citizenship.

I agree. They should comply with US law, but if you're a citizen of the country you are residing in... You deny banking services to all US dual nationals (who aren't worth the trouble)?

As a practical matter, I did not see any indication that Argentine banks entered my information as anything other than an Argentine when I changed my CUIT/DNI numbers. I did disclose US citizenship when I opened those same accounts as a US Citizen. So it seems... Argentina is due for a banking software upgrade to capture dual-nationals, particularly US Citizens (and another form...yea! forms!). I don't recall whether my birth country was requested (or entered from my DNI) as that would be a pretty good indicator for US Citizens.

I haven't researched it (obviously )--I am curious how US/European dual nationals deal with maintaining bank accounts outside the US (if someone has experience with it, please share...or I will consult the interwebs when the need arises). As I noted, I'm not concerned with FBAR as that's on the individual. I'm concerned about a bank closing an account in a country of which one is a citizen due to FACTA.

 

[BDA shorts]

The reason a lot of dual citizens end up getting identified as U.S. citizens is that it's not just a matter of which passport you present. The FATCA compliance procedures require banks to search through the data they already have, and examine new account applicants, for what are called "indicia of U.S. status." These include:

1. identification of an account holder as a U.S. person
2. a U.S. place of birth
3. a U.S. address
4. a U.S. telephone number
5. standing instructions to tranfer funds to an account maintained in the United States
6. a power of attorney or signatory authority granted to a person with a U.S. address
7. a U.S. "in-care-of" or "hold mail" address

The big one here is a U.S. place of birth showing up in your passport (of whatever nationality). Also, for new accounts, you will be asked for your place of birth.

Under certain circumstances the bank also needs to look at "actual knowledge of any relationship manager associated with the account." Translation: If you show up to the branch speaking English with an American accent...

If U.S. indicia are identified, the bank is then required to obtain additional documentation. (For example, they;ll ask for a certificate of loss of nationality to prove that you renounced your citizenship.)

The rules are very well-written and are designed to encompass every conceivable situation and every common method of concealing your citizenship.

For some light bedtime reading: http://fatca.thomsonreuters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/FATCA-FAQ-for-a-Compliance-Officer.pdf