Has Argentina Become Worse Or Better for Foreign Retirees recently?

[JMHarris]

The Australian auto industry is an interesting one to contrast with Argentina.
In its best year ever, 1974, Australia made about the same number of cars, just under 500,000, as Argentina did in 2024.
Argentinas top year for production, 2011, almost 40 years after Australia started its decline, was half again as big as the best Australia ever did.
And the Australian car industry was essentially killed in the late 70s early 80s when the government dropped tariffs on imports, right at the same time the Japanese achieved quality parity, and in may cases, superiority, with US and European cars.
Whereas, the auto industry in Argentina is one that would actually profit from lower tariffs.
The Australians exported fewer cars than Argentina, and oddly enough, it was the Australian Toyota factory, again, which was the largest single exporter of cars from Australia, but I believe their highest volume year of exports was around half the number currently exported from Argentina.
so, historically, Argentina has made more cars per year, and exported more cars, than Australia.
And, at its peak, the Australian government subsidy of the Auto industry was around $500 million/yr, vs $5Billion the Italians spent in 2024.
Peanuts, in other words.
I cant find any info online of direct government subsidies to automakers by the Argentine govt, unlike, say, Italy. Instead, they bestow great gifts like 0% export duties on exports- something that most normal countries do always...
and reduced, but not removed, tariffs on some parts that are imported.


And, one thing seldom discussed- in addition to import tariffs, Argentina has a very complicated web of EXPORT restrictions, tariffs, costs, and frictional systemic issues that mean Argentine exports are hobbled in the world market.

Which is something Milei has done virtually nothing to change- because something like a third of the Argentine government tax income is export taxes, especially on the big ag and raw material exports.
So he doesnt want to kill the golden goose, and thus, its very difficult for smaller local companies to export.
The government should be making it easy to export value added manufactured products, but instead, its quite difficult.

Muy bien dicho. I feel like someone debating you on the auto industry writ large is going to loose the debate.

 

[JMHarris]

P.S. By the way, did Elon Musk receive U.S. government subsidies for his EV work? Under Obama! If only the Obama administration had decided that subsidies to development future technologies that would improve our competitiveness was a NO bc you know, deficits, then perhaps there would have been no DOGE. So interesting that Milei & Co., including gorilas, believe in subsidies for them, but not for anyone else.

 

[SlowWalker]

Sorry, three part response, I thought this was under 10k or at most 2 parts.

The Australian auto industry is an interesting one to contrast with Argentina.
In its best year ever, 1974, Australia made about the same number of cars, just under 500,000, as Argentina did in 2024.
Argentinas top year for production, 2011, almost 40 years after Australia started its decline, was half again as big as the best Australia ever did.
And the Australian car industry was essentially killed in the late 70s early 80s when the government dropped tariffs on imports, right at the same time the Japanese achieved quality parity, and in may cases, superiority, with US and European cars.
Whereas, the auto industry in Argentina is one that would actually profit from lower tariffs.
The Australians exported fewer cars than Argentina, and oddly enough, it was the Australian Toyota factory, again, which was the largest single exporter of cars from Australia, but I believe their highest volume year of exports was around half the number currently exported from Argentina.
so, historically, Argentina has made more cars per year, and exported more cars, than Australia.
And, at its peak, the Australian government subsidy of the Auto industry was around $500 million/yr, vs $5Billion the Italians spent in 2024.
Peanuts, in other words.
I cant find any info online of direct government subsidies to automakers by the Argentine govt, unlike, say, Italy. Instead, they bestow great gifts like 0% export duties on exports- something that most normal countries do always...
and reduced, but not removed, tariffs on some parts that are imported.


And, one thing seldom discussed- in addition to import tariffs, Argentina has a very complicated web of EXPORT restrictions, tariffs, costs, and frictional systemic issues that mean Argentine exports are hobbled in the world market.

Which is something Milei has done virtually nothing to change- because something like a third of the Argentine government tax income is export taxes, especially on the big ag and raw material exports.
So he doesnt want to kill the golden goose, and thus, its very difficult for smaller local companies to export.
The government should be making it easy to export value added manufactured products, but instead, its quite difficult.

Agree that lower tariffs would boost exports.

Australia is not a country of a population half the size of Argentina and an Island. Argentina is part of Mercosur. Comparing manufacturing requires consideration of markets being served as well. Nevertheless, things change. The North American automotive industry is heavilty developed between Canada and the USA and more recently Mexico. Historically in Ontario (province in Canada with much of the car industry) 1 out 6 jobs was directly/indirectly related to the automobile industry through assembly plants, parts manufacturer, steel/alumnium manufacturer etc. Currently there are about 150k direct and 400k including indirect jobs in Ontario related to the industry, with a workforce of approx 7.5M. So overall it is now 7.X% (less than half). That is reality. In the same time, mining, oil and gas, technology, construction, fintech, and others have grown. That is how economies change overtime.

Truman doctrine also supporting the development of manufacturing, resources, services abroad for mutual benefit. Among this would be the eventual transfer of low value manufacturing abroad with the domestic economy becoming more service driven. This has been a major success and allowed for low inflation and maintaining low cost of goods for decades until two things, 1) supply chain shock during the pandemic, and 2) return to isolationist and protectionist policies.

But to your point about Milei government not doing anything, that is objectively not true.
May 7 2025 Decree reduces export taxes to 0% that were worth $3.8B in 2024 (Thousands of items export tax eliminated)
Automobile models introduced after 2022 do not pay an export tax (The Hilux export tax is 2.5%) - (Infobae- Some export tax info, particular to autos.
Extension of Aluminium and Steel Export exemption that started in October 2025 (Alum and Steel Exemption Extension (Q1-2026)
Permanent Reduction of Agriculture Export Tariffs by ~25% - July 2026(Perm reduction ag tariffs)
Subsequent permant reduction by about 10% of existing tariff value (further permanent reduction in ag tariff)
Temporary exemption prior to elections (Yes to strengthen reserves, but this is not the first time governments do this) ($7B quota export without tariffs)

The system for importing and exporting has been streamlined and improved a lot under this administration.

 

[SlowWalker]

Inflationary pressures come from many different directions, deficit spending is just one.

Also, governments are not households (or businesses for that matter). Governments can have deficits if the money that creates the deficit is used strictly for long-standing social services (like Social Security) or long-term economic gains in technology, competitiveness, and education.

Education is key to gains in technology and competitiveness.

Miliei & Co. believe education brain washes you to become a Marxist. Really? Who on earth is a Marxist these days? Not even Xi Jingping is a Marxist. A Communist yes.

Because I'm kuka (and proudly so), I'm called a marxista, leninista, stalinista, maoista, comunista, etc. Evidently, I'm all of them. How can I possibly be all of them? But because I believe that government spending must include spending in social services, otherwise the government is breaking the social contract with its citizens, I'm all that and more.

Meanwhile, anyone can call me anything they want to. I don't care. I know who I am.

You misunderstood my statement. I will clarify. Governments are not households or businesses. They do not need to make a profit. They also have a typical benefit of inflation reducing the value of their debt. However, where they are similar is that even government lending needs to be done responsibly. If not, then the governments credit rating is reduced similarly, and they incur higher interest rates. Eventually, they will not have credit extended to them at which point, running further deficits is super hyperinflation, because the only way to pay it is to print it and there is no demand for your currency. This is the point.

What I meant about households and businesses is that eventually you hit the wall, and you really need to reel in spending, stop going out to restaurants, stop buying new clothes, stop upgrading cell phones every 1/2 years, stop trying to keep up with the neighbours. Stick to a strict budget and get yourself out of a hole. That is what is happening right now. Argentina needs to prove that it can operate with some degree of fiscal discipline. As it is doing so, the country risk has reduced from over 23, to now around 5. It will further decrease. I suspect that within 2 years, should they continue to make the obligations and debt repayments etc, they may decide to run minimal deficits and fund it by debt issuance. Should Milei win, I am certain the major projects would continue to be executed and there will in those year be certainly major influxes of capital (it will be implementation time by then, not just engineering and early procurement).

Your statement also suggests that governments can only run deficits if its used strictly for long standing social services or economic gains in technology, competitiveness and education, that is patently untrue. Governments can spent money on whatever they decide and run deficits. The US right now is cutting health care, education, food and many other services, and increasing tax cuts and military spending. Money and budgets are also fungible. At the end of the day the government spends money across a wide array of capital and operating expenses. The surplus or deficit is a result of ALL the spending, not just certain line items.

Once again, no one here is arguing that deficits are inherently evil. As for my own opinion, I have stated numerous times that they can exist but need to be done so responsibly. And they cannot grow faster than the growth of the economy (on average). A single year outlier, sure, but not as a trend, otherwise you will suffer from inflation. This is what is going on with the world since the pandemic.

Also, Milei isn't against university spending. He has made 2 requests to congress, 1) what will be the source of the funds (either what is getting cut, or where are they raising the funds from) and 2) he wants an audit of the universities receiving the funds. These aren't things that should be an issue, especially since the major omnibus bill that was passed in 2024 requires by law a balanced budget.

And no one here is calling you names, insulting you etc. So I really don't understand what that is all about, nor do I understand why you feel the need to try and insult or name call the party you disagree with. You have criticized Milei for the personal attacks and name calling and you are doing the same. Be the change you want to see. Rise above it. If not, and that is going to be the culture of Argentinians, then don't criticise the other side. Otherwise its another case of rules for thee not for me, and it falls back again to tribal politics. Things are acceptable when its your party, but not the other party.

 

[SlowWalker]

P.S. By the way, did Elon Musk receive U.S. government subsidies for his EV work? Under Obama! If only the Obama administration had decided that subsidies to development future technologies that would improve our competitiveness was a NO bc you know, deficits, then perhaps there would have been no DOGE. So interesting that Milei & Co., including gorilas, believe in subsidies for them, but not for anyone else.

Elon Musk received a SpaceX contract in 2008 (Bush Jr) and loan for Tesla, bailout, in 2010. Much of the subsidies I believe were state level and primarily California. If you mean Doge that was suppose to optimize government spending, that appears to be a major scam and data theft operation, as well as closing numerous lawsuits and ivnestigations against his various companies (Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink, Personal, etc). There have been suggestions that Doge actions will end up costing more than what was ever saved. Many of the "savings" were already planned and were value reduced after initially announced with huge amounts.

This paragraph you wrote is very hard to understand due to structure and lack of punctuation and probably some words missing. No one is arguing that government funding doesn't help develop technology. Most things in the last 100 years have been discovered using some level of government funds, be it pharmaceutical, vaccines (National defense/economy), improvements in agriculture (National defense/food security), Technology Internet, space, drones, mobile, AI, etc (developed by funding from DoD), Material Science usually funded by DoD, Alternative energies Solar, wind, batteries, etc (Energy,DoD). The basis is usually develop for military uses and then roll down to civilian by commercialization or shared use (such as GPS).

Many universities around the world usually partner with American universities to gain access to funding.

Argentina needs to worry about necessities first, at least that is my opinion.

 

[Dim Witty]

Inflationary pressures come from many different directions, deficit spending is just one.

Also, governments are not households (or businesses for that matter). Governments can have deficits if the money that creates the deficit is used strictly for long-standing social services (like Social Security) or long-term economic gains in technology, competitiveness, and education.

Education is key to gains in technology and competitiveness.

Miliei & Co. believe education brain washes you to become a Marxist. Really? Who on earth is a Marxist these days? Not even Xi Jingping is a Marxist. A Communist yes.

Because I'm kuka (and proudly so), I'm called a marxista, leninista, stalinista, maoista, comunista, etc. Evidently, I'm all of them. How can I possibly be all of them? But because I believe that government spending must include spending in social services, otherwise the government is breaking the social contract with its citizens, I'm all that and more.

Meanwhile, anyone can call me anything they want to. I don't care. I know who I am.

Communism IS an ideology inspired by the Marx and Engels’ Communist Manifesto that calls for a classless society, guaranteeing everyone food, clothing, shelter, education, health care with public ownership of all production and distribution as a well a share of the profits, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." Absolutely nothing to do with Russia’s or China's so-called “communism.”

 

[JMHarris]

Communism IS an ideology inspired by the Marx and Engels’ Communist Manifesto that calls for a classless society, guaranteeing everyone food, clothing, shelter, education, health care with public ownership of all production and distribution as a well a share of the profits, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." Absolutely nothing to do with Russia’s or China's so-called “communism.”

I agree. Russia is not communist, just totalitarian mafia state. Really the same for China, too. That said, Google AI says that Xi JingPing's is the General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), a position he has held since November 15, 2012. As the top leader of China, he also serves as the Chairman of the Central Military Commission (CMC) and the President of the People's Republic of China

 

[JMHarris]

Also, Milei isn't against university spending. He has made 2 requests to congress, 1) what will be the source of the funds (either what is getting cut, or where are they raising the funds from) and 2) he wants an audit of the universities receiving the funds. These aren't things that should be an issue, especially since the major omnibus bill that was passed in 2024 requires by law a balanced budget.

From Google AI: The Argentine constitution guarantees the right to education as a fundamental right, establishing that it is free, public, and a shared responsibility between national and provincial governments. It provides for comprehensive primary education and reinforces equality of access to education at all levels, including universities.

Milei's requests to Congress are only excuses to delay / side-step funding for as long as possible. He hates public universities bc he couldn't handle the rigor of UBA so he had to go to a lesser private university, UB, which I went to as part of a (subsidized!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) exchange program.

The audit is also a delaying tactic that everyone can see through. Also, the audit has nothing do with the funds received, but everything to do with the curriculum used, the courses taught, and the political ideologies of professors.

 

[JMHarris]

You misunderstood my statement. I will clarify. Governments are not households or businesses. They do not need to make a profit. They also have a typical benefit of inflation reducing the value of their debt. However, where they are similar is that even government lending needs to be done responsibly. If not, then the governments credit rating is reduced similarly, and they incur higher interest rates. Eventually, they will not have credit extended to them at which point, running further deficits is super hyperinflation, because the only way to pay it is to print it and there is no demand for your currency. This is the point.

What I meant about households and businesses is that eventually you hit the wall, and you really need to reel in spending, stop going out to restaurants, stop buying new clothes, stop upgrading cell phones every 1/2 years, stop trying to keep up with the neighbours. Stick to a strict budget and get yourself out of a hole. That is what is happening right now. Argentina needs to prove that it can operate with some degree of fiscal discipline. As it is doing so, the country risk has reduced from over 23, to now around 5. It will further decrease. I suspect that within 2 years, should they continue to make the obligations and debt repayments etc, they may decide to run minimal deficits and fund it by debt issuance. Should Milei win, I am certain the major projects would continue to be executed and there will in those year be certainly major influxes of capital (it will be implementation time by then, not just engineering and early procurement).

Your statement also suggests that governments can only run deficits if its used strictly for long standing social services or economic gains in technology, competitiveness and education, that is patently untrue. Governments can spent money on whatever they decide and run deficits. The US right now is cutting health care, education, food and many other services, and increasing tax cuts and military spending. Money and budgets are also fungible. At the end of the day the government spends money across a wide array of capital and operating expenses. The surplus or deficit is a result of ALL the spending, not just certain line items.

Once again, no one here is arguing that deficits are inherently evil. As for my own opinion, I have stated numerous times that they can exist but need to be done so responsibly. And they cannot grow faster than the growth of the economy (on average). A single year outlier, sure, but not as a trend, otherwise you will suffer from inflation. This is what is going on with the world since the pandemic.

Also, Milei isn't against university spending. He has made 2 requests to congress, 1) what will be the source of the funds (either what is getting cut, or where are they raising the funds from) and 2) he wants an audit of the universities receiving the funds. These aren't things that should be an issue, especially since the major omnibus bill that was passed in 2024 requires by law a balanced budget.

And no one here is calling you names, insulting you etc. So I really don't understand what that is all about, nor do I understand why you feel the need to try and insult or name call the party you disagree with. You have criticized Milei for the personal attacks and name calling and you are doing the same. Be the change you want to see. Rise above it. If not, and that is going to be the culture of Argentinians, then don't criticise the other side. Otherwise its another case of rules for thee not for me, and it falls back again to tribal politics. Things are acceptable when its your party, but not the other party.

Why didn't you address the many sources of inflationary pressures? It is only deficit spending that produces inflationary pressures?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Also, I wonder what all the gorilas would say if they were told no more government subsidies to maintain and improve all the beautiful parks and plazas in their glorious Barrio Norte / Recoleta / Palermo bc, you know, inflationary pressures. No president would ever tell them bc, you know, you don't pay your taxes.

 

[JMHarris]

Elon Musk received a SpaceX contract in 2008 (Bush Jr) and loan for Tesla, bailout, in 2010. Much of the subsidies I believe were state level and primarily California. If you mean Doge that was suppose to optimize government spending, that appears to be a major scam and data theft operation, as well as closing numerous lawsuits and ivnestigations against his various companies (Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink, Personal, etc). There have been suggestions that Doge actions will end up costing more than what was ever saved. Many of the "savings" were already planned and were value reduced after initially announced with huge amounts.

This paragraph you wrote is very hard to understand due to structure and lack of punctuation and probably some words missing. No one is arguing that government funding doesn't help develop technology. Most things in the last 100 years have been discovered using some level of government funds, be it pharmaceutical, vaccines (National defense/economy), improvements in agriculture (National defense/food security), Technology Internet, space, drones, mobile, AI, etc (developed by funding from DoD), Material Science usually funded by DoD, Alternative energies Solar, wind, batteries, etc (Energy,DoD). The basis is usually develop for military uses and then roll down to civilian by commercialization or shared use (such as GPS).

Many universities around the world usually partner with American universities to gain access to funding.

Argentina needs to worry about necessities first, at least that is my opinion.

Oh, I think I understand you very well now. "Argentina needs to worry about necessities first, at least that is my opinion." Nice to know education is not necessary.