Has there been a decline in tourism / expats?

[soulskier]

Stanley, we have had this discussion before. We just had two sets of friends from California visit BA and us in Bariloche in December. All four remarked how inexpensive meals, lodging, taxis, museums, craft fair items, etc were.

The prices are still very competitve, especially considering the value received for your money.

The other night we went to El Boliche de Alberto, one of the best steak houses anywhere in the world. The bill for 4, with a bottle of wine, was US$50.

 

[Stanexpat]

Stanley, we have had this discussion before. We just had two sets of friends from California visit BA and us in Bariloche in December. All four remarked how inexpensive meals, lodging, taxis, museums, craft fair items, etc were.

The prices are still very competitve, especially considering the value received for your money.

The other night we went to El Boliche de Alberto, one of the best steak houses anywhere in the world. The bill for 4, with a bottle of wine, was US$50.

Well I know you can get steaks cheap there. My only point was economic conditions and higher costs in Argentina will likely put a
dent in tourist numbers in 2009.

Most tourists in Argentina are from other S.A. countries. I can tell you they no longer see it as a bargain. Most other countries there are more of a bargain now as most haven't experienced the high level of inflation as has occurred in Argentina.

 

[soulskier]

Most tourists in Argentina are from other S.A. countries. I can tell you they no longer see it as a bargain. Most other countries there are more of a bargain now as most haven't experienced the high level of inflation as has occurred in Argentina.

We have had visitors from 15 different countries to date. Currently there is a couple with Israel staying with us. I would love to know where you got the fact the most tourists to Argentina are from other South America countries?

 

[steveinbsas]

Well I know you can get steaks cheap there. My only point was economic conditions and higher costs in Argentina will likely put a
dent in tourist numbers in 2009.

Most tourists in Argentina are from other S.A. countries. I can tell you they no longer see it as a bargain. Most other countries there are more of a bargain now as most haven't experienced the high level of inflation as has occurred in Argentina.

Economic conditions in Argentina wont have nearly as much of an effect on North American tourists coming here as economic conditions in their home county. Where can you find a vegetarian buffet in the US for 5 dollars?...or any really great restaurant meal in a major city for $20 (or less)?

The strengthening of the dollar may not last, but recent gains have offset some of the inflation. A few prices here (most notably beef) have actually declined recently. Wine and beer are still cheap by comparison.

There is going to be a dent in tourist numbers all over the world in 2009. Any tourist or expat from the US who knows how to shop (and cook as well) will still find Buenos Aires cheaper than "comparable" US cities (Chicago, NYC, and San Francisco) in almost every respect. I know I do.

 

[sergio]

I believe it is true that most tourists come from Brazil and Chile. Maybe someone can get some official figures.

 

[Stanexpat]

I believe it is true that most tourists come from Brazil and Chile. Maybe someone can get some official figures.

Sergio, I believe you are correct. According the link below back in 2006 the breakdown is as follows:

1 Brazil 19%
2 Chile 15%
3 Other SA countries 16%

Percent of tourists from Latin America in Argentina at 50% which would make them the largest tourist group as I stated earlier.

http://www.mercopress.com/vernoticia.do?id=8601&formato=pdf

I know the number of Brazilians visiting now is down a bunch due to the fall in the Real. Also the high inflation there is probably making it an expensive choice for people from other SA countries.

 

[steveinbsas]

I don't dispute the numbers regarding the decline in tourists from other South American countries, and I'm sure the numbers are down from the US, too, but since the original post included expats in the question and this is an expat website in English, my replies here are focused on North American tourists and expats.

I think its a great time to be either here, especially the latter, that is unless you just lost a significant portion of your retirement income due to the decline in the markets. Those who came here to teach English might find it tougher than ever, but there still must be some demand for them.

I can't claim to be able to spot a tourist from Brazil or Chile. I often can pick out North Americans by the way they are dressed and certainly am able to do so when I hear them speak. Nowhere do I feel surrounded by them (except on Defensa in San Telmo or Plazza Francia on Sundays)...not even in Palermo as a recent poster warned.

Of course business is off everywhere and at (almost) all levels (auto repair shops being one notable exception). I once posted that one sign of deep trouble in the "local" economy here would be the closure of many small retail shops and the failure of new businesses to follow. I have seen few vacant store fronts in Recloeta that have not been re-rented within two or three months.

A few new (small) commercial vacancies appeared this past week, but its too soon to tell if there will be serious attrition or if most will survive. We should know a lot more in the next six to twelve months. I know that Recloleta is just one small barrio catering to the more affluent and does not represent the Argentine economy on the whole, but it is one of the best places to look to see the effects of the decline in tourism or expats.

As for Argentina having high inflation, many products including food and beverages are still somewhat cheaper here than in the US. I spent several months in San Francisco last year and made a lot of price comparisons. Even a 16 oz jar of La Costena salsa which is imported here (and I cannot live without) is only 7 pesos. I was paying more than that for it at Safeway. Beer and wine are even better examples. Though there is talk of significant increases in gas and electric rates, that hasn't happened yet, and taxes on properties of less than $100,000 US in Buenos Aires are very, very low in spite of the fact that they trippled last year (in the "better" barrios).

 

[soulskier]

I own a property management business in Bariloche. Here are the countries that have stayed with us thus far. 2 out of 16 countries (ARG and CHL) are in South America.

Argentina
Australia
Brazil
Canana
Chile
China
EEUU
German
India
Israel
Malaysia
NZ
Poland
South Africa
Turkey
UK

I am stating facts not some "expert" report from 2006. People are still coming from all around the world!

 

[Stanexpat]

I own a property management business in Bariloche. Here are the countries that have stayed with us thus far. 2 out of 16 countries (ARG and CHL) are in South America.

Argentina
Australia
Brazil
Canana
Chile
China
EEUU
German
India
Israel
Malaysia
NZ
Poland
South Africa
Turkey
UK

I am stating facts not some "expert" report from 2006. People are still coming from all around the world!

Actually the source for the "expert" report was the Argentine government. Recent reports are that tourist arrivals are down sharply at EZE. I suspect as we get into 2009 more information will become available and that the outlook will become clearer.

 

[steveinbsas]

Actually the source for the "expert" report was the Argentine government. Recent reports are that tourist arrivals are down sharply at EZE. I suspect as we get into 2009 more information will become available and that the outlook will become clearer.

So this means those of us who are here won't be "surrounded by tourists" in Palermo, perhaps find cheapper airfares, get better temporary apartments for less, and get better service in restaurants? I do know a few expats have business here, but not very many. Those in the "whiskey business" are probably going to be fine. I seriously doubt that many restaurants will close, certainly not the better ones. Small retail shops will come and go. Perhaps for a while more will go. Otherwise, what difference does it make to any of us on an individual basis?