Hello Recession, Goodbye Inflation

[Phatbuddha]

Who knows ..... Maybe Argentina will start dropping importation tariffs.... what would happen then ?

 

[Daniel82]

For the sake of people who have potentially been wanting to buy for awhile in BA but have been holding off due to thinking that the prices up until recently had been inflated drastically, I hope prices level to a fair and proportionate level.

My mother (Argentinean but who’s lived and worked in US all her life) came down to see some places when things were still ok, and, for what I thought to be a more than decent budget of about $280-$300k we were shown total and utter CRAP.

The irony of this is that most of the units were described by the realtors as ‘luxury’ , ‘modern’, and my favorite, ‘con amenities’ —- and were anything but compared to either US or Europe standards.

We saw a place for 280k that was almost falling apart completely and with a kitchen that had the ugliest yellow tiles that appeared to be from the 1950s, but it was on Juncal and this seemed to justify them offering crap just because it was on this street.

Honestly I know Recoleta is historically the nicest residential neighborhood, but not all streets/areas within Recoleta justify prime real estate prices and many places have not been maintained properly or modernized and perhaps were deemed ‘luxury’ 50 years ago.

In any event, argentines are not known to be hagglers or easy to negotiate with UNLESS something major and crisis like occurs, so we shall see.

A friend of mine who is the VP of a bank wanted to get a bike for his kids birthday and I went with him to a small mom and pop type toy shop, we asked how bushess had been lately and the owner complained that he hadn’t sold anything in almost 5 days. I asked him if he had tried perhaps lowering his prices or having a sale/promotion of sorts (especially considering the fact that most of his toys/merchandise wasn’t the very latest and many of these items were hugely marked up) and he looked at me like I had suggested removing a bodily organ.

 

[garryl]

Why not invest in Venezuela it has had a crash and prices have come down 80percent?

Venezuela is a wrong country. Argentina is fine if there is a chance.

 

[garryl]

For the sake of people who have potentially been wanting to buy for awhile in BA but have been holding off due to thinking that the prices up until recently had been inflated drastically, I hope prices level to a fair and proportionate level.

My mother (Argentinean but who’s lived and worked in US all her life) came down to see some places when things were still ok, and, for what I thought to be a more than decent budget of about $280-$300k we were shown total and utter CRAP.

The irony of this is that most of the units were described by the realtors as ‘luxury’ , ‘modern’, and my favorite, ‘con amenities’ —- and were anything but compared to either US or Europe standards.

We saw a place for 280k that was almost falling apart completely and with a kitchen that had the ugliest yellow tiles that appeared to be from the 1950s, but it was on Juncal and this seemed to justify them offering crap just because it was on this street.

Honestly I know Recoleta is historically the nicest residential neighborhood, but not all streets/areas within Recoleta justify prime real estate prices and many places have not been maintained properly or modernized and perhaps were deemed ‘luxury’ 50 years ago.

In any event, argentines are not known to be hagglers or easy to negotiate with UNLESS something major and crisis like occurs, so we shall see.

A friend of mine who is the VP of a bank wanted to get a bike for his kids birthday and I went with him to a small mom and pop type toy shop, we asked how bushess had been lately and the owner complained that he hadn’t sold anything in almost 5 days. I asked him if he had tried perhaps lowering his prices or having a sale/promotion of sorts (especially considering the fact that most of his toys/merchandise wasn’t the very latest and many of these items were hugely marked up) and he looked at me like I had suggested removing a bodily organ.

Selling at low is crazy. Goods in Argentina is asset. Things are going up like crazy, selling low can easily causes a loss. You have to keep raising the price and hope someone will buy. I can understand them. It takes a lot of bribes and work to finally get that bike from shipping, custom to the store, and finally find a customer. When you find that customer who has to buy, you sell it to him/her. Unlike in US, people buy a bike and throw it away next week.

 

[garryl]

For the sake of people who have potentially been wanting to buy for awhile in BA but have been holding off due to thinking that the prices up until recently had been inflated drastically, I hope prices level to a fair and proportionate level.

My mother (Argentinean but who’s lived and worked in US all her life) came down to see some places when things were still ok, and, for what I thought to be a more than decent budget of about $280-$300k we were shown total and utter CRAP.

The irony of this is that most of the units were described by the realtors as ‘luxury’ , ‘modern’, and my favorite, ‘con amenities’ —- and were anything but compared to either US or Europe standards.

We saw a place for 280k that was almost falling apart completely and with a kitchen that had the ugliest yellow tiles that appeared to be from the 1950s, but it was on Juncal and this seemed to justify them offering crap just because it was on this street.

Honestly I know Recoleta is historically the nicest residential neighborhood, but not all streets/areas within Recoleta justify prime real estate prices and many places have not been maintained properly or modernized and perhaps were deemed ‘luxury’ 50 years ago.

In any event, argentines are not known to be hagglers or easy to negotiate with UNLESS something major and crisis like occurs, so we shall see.

A friend of mine who is the VP of a bank wanted to get a bike for his kids birthday and I went with him to a small mom and pop type toy shop, we asked how bushess had been lately and the owner complained that he hadn’t sold anything in almost 5 days. I asked him if he had tried perhaps lowering his prices or having a sale/promotion of sorts (especially considering the fact that most of his toys/merchandise wasn’t the very latest and many of these items were hugely marked up) and he looked at me like I had suggested removing a bodily organ.

Most listings are junk, if you are local, you can find a better one, maybe outdated, but you can remodel it. There are many parts in Recoleta are not good and many so called Recoleta areas are not in actual Recoleta. As an outsider, I do not like the new buildings in Palermo/Puerto Madero, it's so boring, the high expense fees and thin walls, tiny shit*ole pool turn me off. At the same time, Recoleta area has a lot of problems too, the buildings are really old, even if you remodel yours, the building can still crappy, no 24 security. I still like the old neighborhood of Recoleta, you walk around those buildings in 40s/50s, you feel like you are in different time, you can live in the past. You get to enjoy the true Argentina. But the local young professionals prefer the new buildings in Palermo, the real estate value appreciates faster in the new buildings too. If you have an Argentine spouse, you probably like the new buildings that have more functions, and away from Recoleta. The longer the expats live in Argentina, the further they are from Recoleta.

Yes, there is no place like BsAs in the entire Latin America. If there is a crash in real estate, I think many will come to find a good deal. If not, that's good for the Argentinians. The world once again, is at a crossroads. It is going to be interesting to see how it is going to pan out. What happens in Argentina, largely affected by the world economy, by what happens in US, China, Europe and Trump.

 

[Joglide]

Lots of debate above on the housing situation: good points. The turning point was 2001 recession and whether you were lucky enough to be one of the majority who owned their homes. As Marcela Cristini, Ramiro Moya and Guillermo Bermúdez note "Housing became less accessible in Argentina after the 2001 crisis. The minimum income needed to qualify for a mortgage more than tripled in one year, while the average income level of Argentine households declined. Average households were no longer able to afford a mortgage. At the same time, housing prices recovered over time after a deep fall in dollar terms due to the mega-devaluation. In 2004 and 2005, the average monthly payment to cover a mortgage loan of AR$ 40,000 was AR$600. Banks required that monthly payments be equal or less than 30 percent of household income." Limited recovery recently in mortgage availability but not much. Most younger people even of middle income find it difficult to purchase, rather than inherit, housing. Will prices of houses fall? Well if we could buy in pesos maybe demand would be sustained but as $US remains guide then domestic demand for buying dollars with pesos given very high inflation means that in real terms homes more expensive and demand dampened, so some softening of prices surely likely. Speculative investment will continue but the risks are greater since rents unlikely to spiral. A pity as I hoped to buy but dollar is strong against many currencies and we have to wait till it drops somewhat...

 

[perry]

For the sake of people who have potentially been wanting to buy for awhile in BA but have been holding off due to thinking that the prices up until recently had been inflated drastically, I hope prices level to a fair and proportionate level.

My mother (Argentinean but who’s lived and worked in US all her life) came down to see some places when things were still ok, and, for what I thought to be a more than decent budget of about $280-$300k we were shown total and utter CRAP.

The irony of this is that most of the units were described by the realtors as ‘luxury’ , ‘modern’, and my favorite, ‘con amenities’ —- and were anything but compared to either US or Europe standards.

We saw a place for 280k that was almost falling apart completely and with a kitchen that had the ugliest yellow tiles that appeared to be from the 1950s, but it was on Juncal and this seemed to justify them offering crap just because it was on this street.

Honestly I know Recoleta is historically the nicest residential neighborhood, but not all streets/areas within Recoleta justify prime real estate prices and many places have not been maintained properly or modernized and perhaps were deemed ‘luxury’ 50 years ago.

In any event, argentines are not known to be hagglers or easy to negotiate with UNLESS something major and crisis like occurs, so we shall see.

A friend of mine who is the VP of a bank wanted to get a bike for his kids birthday and I went with him to a small mom and pop type toy shop, we asked how bushess had been lately and the owner complained that he hadn’t sold anything in almost 5 days. I asked him if he had tried perhaps lowering his prices or having a sale/promotion of sorts (especially considering the fact that most of his toys/merchandise wasn’t the very latest and many of these items were hugely marked up) and he looked at me like I had suggested removing a bodily organ.

For the sake of people who have potentially been wanting to buy for awhile in BA but have been holding off due to thinking that the prices up until recently had been inflated drastically, I hope prices level to a fair and proportionate level.

My mother (Argentinean but who’s lived and worked in US all her life) came down to see some places when things were still ok, and, for what I thought to be a more than decent budget of about $280-$300k we were shown total and utter CRAP.

The irony of this is that most of the units were described by the realtors as ‘luxury’ , ‘modern’, and my favorite, ‘con amenities’ —- and were anything but compared to either US or Europe standards.

We saw a place for 280k that was almost falling apart completely and with a kitchen that had the ugliest yellow tiles that appeared to be from the 1950s, but it was on Juncal and this seemed to justify them offering crap just because it was on this street.

Honestly I know Recoleta is historically the nicest residential neighborhood, but not all streets/areas within Recoleta justify prime real estate prices and many places have not been maintained properly or modernized and perhaps were deemed ‘luxury’ 50 years ago.

In any event, argentines are not known to be hagglers or easy to negotiate with UNLESS something major and crisis like occurs, so we shall see.

A friend of mine who is the VP of a bank wanted to get a bike for his kids birthday and I went with him to a small mom and pop type toy shop, we asked how bushess had been lately and the owner complained that he hadn’t sold anything in almost 5 days. I asked him if he had tried perhaps lowering his prices or having a sale/promotion of sorts (especially considering the fact that most of his toys/merchandise wasn’t the very latest and many of these items were hugely marked up) and he looked at me like I had suggested removing a bodily organ.

This is a huge problem in argentinian society where speculation and exagerration are hugely valued . The word impeccable is bandied in the real estate world very casually when the truth is that 90% of all properties for sale have not seen a revamp in 30 years . Once Buenos Aires was known for high quality and the best materials but something drastic has happened to the culture here that prides itself on shortcuts and using bandaids to fix problems . Many older cafes while charming have not changed their menus in 30 years and now they are mostly are shutting down as people today demand healthier and more variety in their food. Properties listed for sale are rarely updated beforehand and staging is very rare here . I have seen it all in real estate here and nothing destroys a sale of a property more than a very cluttered untidy property that has not been painted in 20 years . It is important also that the building entrance is painted as first impressions do count , even if you have to pay for this out of your own pocket this small investment will pay huge dividends for the sale .

 

[Joglide]

I still like the old neighborhood of Recoleta, you walk around those buildings in 40s/50s, you feel like you are in different time, you can live in the past. You get to enjoy the true Argentina. But the local young professionals prefer the new buildings in Palermo, the real estate value appreciates faster in the new buildings too. If you have an Argentine spouse, you probably like the new buildings that have more functions, and away from Recoleta. The longer the expats live in Argentina, the further they are from Recoleta.

Don't follow the point on expats and getting further from Recoleta? What do you mean?

 

[garryl]

I still like the old neighborhood of Recoleta, you walk around those buildings in 40s/50s, you feel like you are in different time, you can live in the past. You get to enjoy the true Argentina. But the local young professionals prefer the new buildings in Palermo, the real estate value appreciates faster in the new buildings too. If you have an Argentine spouse, you probably like the new buildings that have more functions, and away from Recoleta. The longer the expats live in Argentina, the further they are from Recoleta.

Don't follow the point on expats and getting further from Recoleta? What do you mean?

Joglide, the longer the expats live in buenos aires, they live in a true life of locals, Recoleta is not exotic anymore. They have more practical needs. They start to move outside of the center where the apartment/house has more functions(bigger), kids have to be in schools and Recoleta starts to feel too touristy. But if you are in and out of Argentina, Recoleta is still better I think.

 

[Joglide]

Thanks for the explanation/elucidation garrly. Speaking as a regular visitor I have never been taken with Recoleta as a place to live or even visit much, and like Palermo I avoid it as I come to see Argentinian people at work and play rather than watch tourists. Staying in the Almagro or Villa Crespo or Boedo is still central and safe, even tourist-friendly, but you do see more of the other side of life. That said, most portenos would probably avoid the villas around Retiro and Constitucion as a place to live even if it meant bigger housing? anyway, good to have your views.