Hi all, considering moving from Australia.

va2ba said:
Hello Nic,

First off, I'm sorry that all this nonsense is going on in the thread that you started. Unfortunately, some people come on here to fight rather than to help each other which is what this forum is all about.

Thanks for the reminder. I apologize for my share of the fighting - it was a disgraceful show.

Buenos Aires is not a good place to raise children. Belgrano is still relatively child-friendly, and the Northern suburbs even more so. Still, in suburban San Isidro children cannot go out without adult supervision. Those who can afford it move to gated communities, where children can still bicycle to friends' homes, and play outside.

Moving can be hard on children. They don't really understand what's going on, and adapting to a new country and a new language can be difficult. Even if you home-school, they will need playmates. Relocating for five years might be worth it - there is time to learn the language and make friends, put down some roots. Two years is not enough for that.

You should be able to get around without speaking much Spanish - many Argentinians speak at least a bit of English and most are friendly and ready to help out.
 
Based on what little you know about Argentina and the reality of BA and the shitty employer mentality in AR......all of this and more! Do not subject your family to life in Argentina. Stay in Australia. It's civilized.
 
If you have an offer from a company that will pay you well according to an Australian standard (and this should include private school at one of the best schools - you won't find the others up to Australian standards) then come. If not, you will have to drop your standard considerably. There are expat families here who live in Zona Norte suburbs as well as or better than they lived in their home countries. if you are not in that category of very highly paid foreign executives, your life here will be a great challenge.
 
syngirl said:
Yeah I'd worry about homeschooling too just because what if you actually ended up staying in Argentina, you could find your kids ineligble for university studies because of homeschooling (University by the way, for residents, is free -- with the exception of some private unis).

Definitely! If you think there is the slightest change of staying in Argentina longer, then do send your kids to a school from the first moment you arrive here. If they are out of the school system for a while and then you need to enroll them, I can tell you, it will become a nightmare of paperwork to fill out and chances are the dept. of Education here will NOT take into account any homeschooling done in the meantime.
 
To the OP: without a little more information, it's very difficult to give you any real advice.

- Would housing be provided/included?
- If not, would the company act as gurantor, allowing you to sign a 2 year lease at a much less expensive monthly cost.
- Would the company assist you in placing your children in private schools, would tuition be included in your package, etc, etc.
- What type of salary are you looking at? For example, if it is equivalent to your salary in Australia, that would put you at the *very* high end of Argentine salary.
- Have you factored in the income taxes, etc. you need to pay here?
- Would the company be providing you and your family private health insurance or would you need to pay for that out of your own pocket?
 
And would your employer pay the costs of getting your visas?

If you are able to sign a two year lease, the house will probably be unfurnished...perhaps even without light fixtures or curtains.

When you move back to Australia you will lose at least 50% of what you spent.

If you flee in terror you will lose even more.
 
steveinbsas said:
And would your employer pay the costs of getting your visas?

If you are able to sign a two year lease, the house will probably be unfurnished...perhaps even without light fixtures or curtains.

When you move back to Australia you will lose at least 50% of what you spent.

If you flee in terror you will lose even more.
And don't even think about having a Garage Sale. Your goods will be stolen in 10 seconds or if anyone pays, they will pay you 2 cents on the dollar. [maybe]
 
I would never move my entire family here without first being here awhile to check it out and see if it's tolerable. The time required for this is not small, because living like a tourist is not like living as a local (of whatever level).

As many have pointed out here, how you live will 100% depend on the amount of money you make. Unless you are filthy rich, the best you can live will be less than most middle-, or perhaps upper-middle-class living in the States. I can't compare to Australia because I've never even been there unfortunately.

I have lived in the northern suburbs for almost two years now, about 10 kilometers closer to the city than Pilar, about 38 k from the city. With no traffic it's about a 30 minute drive. I live in a small gated neighborhood of 50 lots. There are other neighborhoods out here that have golf courses, pools, tennis courts, etc, and they are more expensive.

The house I live in is 9 years old. It has 4 bedrooms, a good-sized kitchen, a small den. It has a pool out back. The neighborhood is quiet.

The people around here are very aloof. They don't talk to people they don't know, it seems.

When I moved in, it was costing me about $1800 US a month for all my house expenses. Neighborhood expenses, the small city tax I have to pay as a renter (not the property tax, but a maintenance fee), electricity, water, internet, DirectTV, gas. Lawn maintenance. Pool maintenance. As a renter, I am responsible for most repairs to things like air conditioners (which the owners don't always leave in the house).

It is now costing me about $3000 US a month (this is just for the house, keep in mind), a nearly 50% increase. The portion of the neighborhood expenses I have to pay have literally doubled. From $570 pesos a month to $1,120. Gas almost tripled and hurt in the winter. Electricity has doubled. Water has doubled.

Of course, part of the increase was the yearly increase that is built in to most rental contracts that are not done in dollars (most are done in pesos). Mine increase was 18%, talked down from 20%.

Food costs have absolutely soared, particularly in the past few months.

I estimate that it is now costing me about $5000 US a month all told.

Part of the issue with living here is the frustrations you have to deal with.

Our power went out last night for the second time in a week, this time because of the rain. Last week it was a blown transformer - for the second time this year, third time since I've been in the house. The blown transformer was bad enough. It takes about 12 hours from the time you hear the explosion to the time the power comes back on.

Last night it was just the rain. We don't always lose electricity when it rains, but about every 3rd or 4th time. It went out about 9 pm, so I took the family out for a dinner and a movie. We got back to the house around 1 am. On the way back, we passed three Edenor (the electric company out here) trucks parked on the side of the road with their lights flashing. It had stopped raining and the crews from the trucks were sitting on the fenders, the curb, etc, smoking and BSing it seemed. Certainly none of them were doing anyhting.

Upon reaching the entrance to the neighborhood, I asked the guard on duty at the entrance (an older, skinny fellow around his early 60s, very friendly) if he'd heard anything from Edenor about the situation. He chuckled and said "yeah, sure I did. They're sitting down the road back there, for almost two hours now, smoking their cigarettes. They haven't found the fault yet and don't look to be in a hurry." He grimaced and said "you know how it is here in Argentina by now. They rush to take your money when you buy something from them, and get you set up real quick. Then when you need service, you'll wait until they are damned good and ready to help you."

Of course, that hit particularly close to to the bone, it just so happened, without the guard knowing it. I have, as mentioned, DirectTV. When I had it installed about a year and a half ago, they got here before noon the day after I called. I swear it was a land speed record! About four months ago, I order DirectTV Plus service, which is a DVR, for the connection in my bedroom. Once again, they were out here the following day.

About a month ago (yes, three months after I got it), my Plus box died. I called tech support and they said they were going to send someone out on Thursday, which was three days after I had called. I thought, that's not bad!

The Wednesday before, I received an email thanking me for being so understanding for changing the date to a week later. I called and bitched but there was nothing I could do (there never is, actually). So I waited for the next week. Once again, the day before they were scheduled to arrive, I received the same thankful email.

Of course, the third time they had scheduled, almost three weeks after I reported the problem, happened to be the first day (mentioned above) that we lost power. They have both my landline and my wife's cellphone. Of course, they called the landline when there was no electricity and didn't bother to call my wife's cellphone. That's ok, they couldn't have done anything anyway because we had no electricity.

They came out finally a week later and replaced the box (yesterday).

Don't get me started about the private schools out here, the ones that are reasonably affordable. The "ambassador son" schools out here are good - Spanish half the day, English, Italian, German, French (or whatever) the other half, depending on the school's affiliation. But they run around $1800 - $4500 pesos a month, depending on how exclusive it is. That's about $470 - $1,170 US a month.

We brought my wife's younger sister, who speaks Spanish and Guarani only, to go to school here. The schools here are much better than the schools in Paraguay. However.

We pay about $600 pesos a month. The kids are wild, almost uncontrolled. They cheat regularly, many times right under the teachers' nose. The schools are not well-organzed, thought-out or planned. As an example, something as major as a campout trip to the north for three days for the class (my sister-in-law was 13 at the time, almost 14) was post-poned 4 times over a month and a half, up to finally three days before the end of school, because they couldn't get things moving. Makes it very hard to plan things.

On top of that, the house we live in is nothing like I would rent where I come from (Houston, Texas) in the States, for the same money. It is made of solid brick and concrete. That's good - at least the structure is relatively solid. But the fixtures, the finishings, the quality of just about everything, is very below what I'm used to in the States. That includes very much the wiring which fails all the time. The kitchen circuit goes out every time it rains more than three hours. I've called four different electricians out now to fix the issue, and they all tell me there's nothing wrong.

There are so many things I haven't even gone into here because the post is already way too long. Things like needing to guarantee a rental with real property - yes, about 95% of the time here, a renter needs to provide the owner with a piece of property to guarantee the contract. Something not real easy to get, particularly if you haven't been here for awhile and made some contacts. Someone did mention your company guaranteeing the lease, which is a good workable option. Most of us here don't ahve that opportunity because there are not many foreign companies who like to do business here, percentage-wise, because of labor laws and many other issues related to just plain getting business done.

Now, I know I'm going to get a lot of people asking "well gee, why do you live here if it's such a bother" and every other thing that the people who absolutely love it here, unqualified, with no hesitation, will probably say. Or those who think because you live somewhere that you shouldn't say anything bad.

We all have our own reasons for living here. Mine are private and don't play into this public discussion. I will say that I do enjoy my life here more than I do not. I enjoy my life here more than I did in the States, again for personal reasons.

I write the above because I am describing what it takes in both monetary and patience costs.

I am pretty much at peace with living in Argentina, dealing with what can be life's everyday frustrations. But anyone coming here needs to really understand what they are getting into.

One can live a whole lot cheaper in the city. I can probably live at close to half what costs me out here if I move back into town, and still be living quite well. I am seriously considering it. My problem is that I'm not a city boy, and the noise and bedlam of where I used to live drove me out. Taxis honking, buses running (they are really loud!), drunks coming home at 3 am singing at the top of their lungs, etc.

That can be avoided by choosing wisely the right part of town. You should really come here to get to know the town. Think about how you want your kids to be raised as well, as far as what will be available to them. Figure out how to rent a place. So on and so forth.
 
ElQueso said:
We all have our own reasons for living here. Mine are private and don't play into this public discussion. I will say that I do enjoy my life here more than I do not. I enjoy my life here more than I did in the States, again for personal reasons.

ElQueso regarding your personal reasons I have very good contacts back in the states with people in the criminal justice system. Perhaps all those false charges and accusations against you could be cleared up, for a small fee of course.

Kidding aside very good post, mirrors my experiences here almost exactly. I have DirectTV as well and find the service the best of any other company there, maybe because it's a U.S. company. As for your standard of living cost on $5k a month you could probably have the same or better in most places in U.S. right now. I would agree you could probably live in B.A. for less. There are lots of hassles in living here, my favorites are getting service on anything and paying bills. For people who want hassle free lifestyles Argentina should be avoided.
 
Actually, your wife could earn some REALLY good money here if she doesn't speak Spanish. Many expats use acupuncture and would love to go to an English speaker trained in a 1st world country. I would pay more for that service. It would require doing some personal marketing, on FaceBook and sites like this one and also at expat events, at the Australian embassy and other English speaking countries' embassies.

In my opinion, if you are going to live in Argentina, living in the suburbs and driving sounds like the seventh level of hell. If you want the experience, get a flat in the city and live the life for the brief time you're here. Also, from someone who has not enjoyed living here, if you want to recreate exactly the life you have at home, don't come here. It isn't a 1st world country. Period. The education for your kids will the be the amazing experience of living in another culture and learning a new language and new way of living. That has been my gift from being here, though one I did not expect to have in the way it has unfolded. It is a gift you will give to them that they could never get in any other way. It will change who they become as adults. Negotiate salary and perks, expenses, etc, as high as you can. You should try to get the company to pay for AND ARRANGE, shipment of anything you bring with you and wishfully for a trip home once a year for your entire family because that can be pricey. Most locals I know spend money on schooling for their children. Only the poor allow their kids to go to public school so whether or not they could get in I don't think it would be a good choice. The experience of schooling though in a decent private school would be the only way to really allow them to immerse in the culture and get that exposure that would make it worth the doing to come here for them.

Good luck with your choice and let people know if you need more information. If you want to talk to people, talk to people from different perspectives, and not on a forum, in person. Choose 2 or more people to write to and ask them what they love, what they hate, what's made it worth it and what they would do differently if they could. There are some very passionate, opinionated people who love this place, and a few, like myself, who don't, and getting that type of broad spectrum information will be useful to you whatever you end up doing.

Peace...
 
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