How do I say the French term "latin" in Castellano?

[HeyBA]

Hey French Jurist, thanks for that link on the etymology of "Latin America":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America

I've been wondering for some time how to square the French use of the term "Latin" and the US English term "Latin".

I remember a French friend saying to me once, "Dans le Sud de la France, c'est plus Latin" and subsequently explaining that this represented the historical divide between Protestant and Catholic Europe.

In US English, Latin would refer to the divide in this hemisphere between the cultural norms of North and South. Typical and easily recognizable things, like men from Latin America being more outwardly macho and women from LA being more outwardly feminine than their US counterparts. These are stereotypes, of course, but that's what the US English word "Latin" brings to mind.

But I've been looking for how to say the French equivalent of "Latin" in Castellano. Particularly for day to day cultural differences evidenced when people socialize. For example, it's more common in a "Latin" in the French language sense locale for people to have had the same friends for a very long time and spend long occasions socializing with just them. It's also much more accepted for people to express discontent verbally without their being any intention of a physical conflict. There are less hang-ups about people's personal lives, but the family is highly prized, etc. etc.

You see this distinction in lots of funny ways as an expat in BA. For example, American and English girls flipping out that all the boys are touching them or staring at them. American guys straight up staring a fight when someone speaks sharply to them. Argentines generally socializing within their own group, even when they are in public, except on the dance floor, where all the magic happens.

The Spanish/English word "Latino" does not work here, as the Argentines see themselves as something distinct in Latin America, and identify largely with their European roots.

All of this is news to no one on this forum, but I'm just wondering, in Castellano, how do I say something akin to the French term "latin", as I understand it's use?

 

[PhilipDT]

boludo(a).

 

[French jurist]

Hi HeyBA,

Interesting question. Unfortunately, my castellano is not very good.

I understand what you mean.

I guess that to translate it properly, it would have to be something quite descriptive like "esfera cultural con raices en el mundo latín".
For the best translation though, you could ask on the number 1 translator's forum : http://www.proz.com/kudoz

The word "latino" as used by latin americans (term which itself was chosen by political reasons) obviously come from "latin" (although some other etymologies point towards "ladino" -> http://etimologias.dechile.net/?latino). And this word became used to mainly refers to the inhabitants of Latin America (by both the latinos & the populations living North of the Rio Grande).

To mark the difference, it seems to me it would be needed to point out the latin roots/cultural sphere in Spanish.

I'm sure many will have clever opinions about that (will think about it today)

cheers

 

[DontMindMe]

I am choosing to skip the point of your post and focus on the part that made me roll my eyes.

You see this distinction in lots of funny ways as an expat in BA. For example, American and English girls flipping out that all the boys are touching them or staring at them. American guys straight up staring a fight when someone speaks sharply to them. Argentines generally socializing within their own group, even when they are in public, except on the dance floor, where all the magic happens.

The only time I "flipped out" was when a random drunken porteño reached out as I was walking to the bathroom in a boliche and grabbed my chin and tried to pull me toward him to kiss him, wrenching my neck. I stumbled and almost fell down, and had to push him off me as his group of friends looked on. I went home crying and my neck hurt for two days. If that's what you consider dance floor magic, you can take it and shove it. Or there were the two occasions during the day when I was followed by angry men (again, drunk) who were upset that I didn't stop to answer their piropos. On both occasions I had to run down the street to lose them. Oh, and there was the guy in Rosario who groped my ass and hissed, pero qué culo que tenésssssss. Or the other time my ass got groped during rush hour on Scalabrini Ortiz. Delightful memories, really. I have more if you would like to hear them. And if you think things like this bother American/English women more than Argentine ones, you would be wrong. The staring is one thing, but random men touching you is not fun for anyone.

 

[mini]

Hey French Jurist, thanks for that link on the etymology of "Latin America":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America

I've been wondering for some time how to square the French use of the term "Latin" and the US English term "Latin".

I remember a French friend saying to me once, "Dans le Sud de la France, c'est plus Latin" and subsequently explaining that this represented the historical divide between Protestant and Catholic Europe.\

Where are you putting this Protestant/Catholic divid? It certainly does not go through France.

In France and Italy, I think the divide is more around climate. The hotter the climate the more "latin" (ie, laid bad) the culture.

 

[HeyBA]

The Protestant/Catholic thing was explained to me by a very learned French friend when I lived there. Of course there is a kind of stereotype throughout Europe between North/South, traditionally Protestant/Catholic, Cold/Warm, etc. Admittedly this is a stereotype, and is a fair bit of armchair sociology which always risks devolving into easy opinions, but I'm actually looking for a vocabulary word that is a stereotype, so I have to define the stereotype.

So again I'm looking for a stock phrase I can use when argentinos start telling me about the culture here, how people have the same friends for a long time, how the family is important and sometimes argentine men are "muy mameros", how there's less of a taboo about alcohol but people get less drunk less often, this sort of thing. The same characteristics are visible in France, Spain, Italy. In France if someone started explaining this aspect of French culture to me, I could say "Oui, c'est plus latin, j'adore ca ici". This would be my way out of listening to a list of stuff I'm already aware of.

@Don'tMindMe: Sorry all that stuff happened to you. I didn't mean to make flippant remarks about what in your case amounts to literal assault. I was alluding to rather when the guys are well within line here but it still feels a bit much to an Anglo girl, like that pigeon head dancing to go in for the kiss, but for like ten minutes. That's it.

 

[jontyjago]

Mediterraneo?

 

[HeyBA]

Jontyjago, I think we may have close to a winner with "mediterraneo". Plus, that will probably be taken as a compliment by an Argentine, so it's a good thing to say.

Thanks!

Any other suggestions?

 

[French jurist]

I have one that could work well for Argentina (since Italian influence is so important here) :

Dolce Vita !

It's a bit the same in France with "Douceur de vivre" which applies quite well to the meridional way of living (nice weather, taking the time to live/eat, priviledging quality of life over work, spending 5 hours lunching/talking/laughing, looking at the women walking in the street, etc.).

 

[French jurist]

[quote name='Don'tMindMe']I am choosing to skip the point of your post and focus on the part that made me roll my eyes.



The only time I "flipped out" was when a random drunken porteño reached out as I was walking to the bathroom in a boliche and grabbed my chin and tried to pull me toward him to kiss him, wrenching my neck. I stumbled and almost fell down, and had to push him off me as his group of friends looked on. I went home crying and my neck hurt for two days. If that's what you consider dance floor magic, you can take it and shove it. Or there were the two occasions during the day when I was followed by angry men (again, drunk) who were upset that I didn't stop to answer their piropos. On both occasions I had to run down the street to lose them. Oh, and there was the guy in Rosario who groped my ass and hissed, pero qué culo que tenésssssss. Or the other time my ass got groped during rush hour on Scalabrini Ortiz. Delightful memories, really. I have more if you would like to hear them. And if you think things like this bother American/English women more than Argentine ones, you would be wrong. The staring is one thing, but random men touching you is not fun for anyone.[/QUOTE]

I don't like much political correctness but it's true that here mentalities need to change regarding women:
-Look at the ads for kitchen products = always the woman cleaning (ok, they were born with two arms to clean the windows and two legs to climb the stool... but men also).
-Look at the chicas with "hilo dental" (where you have to spread the two parts to see it) dancing in cumbia shows (looked at those with a purely intellectual interest... mhhhh) -> women as objects of consumption.

But it's true that it's a very latin thing (like in Italy and such).