How Hard Is It To Get Out Of Buenos Aires?

[citygirl]

Really - the phrases used by the OP like "
Today, the conservatives and their allies are on the march yet again, sabotaging the economy and creating popular unrest by undermining access to basic services, making the nation suffer in the hope of toppling La Presidenta and her administration." or "Nestor Kirchner was in some ways like Juan Peron come again, and Christina was more than fit to play the role of his Evita. Together they struggled valiantly to revive the dream of Juan Peron, to return power to the people, to restore the economy and rebuild the middle class, to bring about a more equitable distribution of income, and to eliminate corruption in government" don't indicate a certain line of thinking? And the italicized part may be the funniest thing I've read in a while

As for the rest, well, do you not think the gov'ts decision impact your life in a far different manner here? Let's see - off the top of my head - the inability to exchange my money to another currency if I want without waiting for the gov't permission (well, if I want to do it legally). The fact that my friend can't get medication sent in to Argentina that she desperately needs. The fact that you can't buy things online and have them sent here without an inordinate amount of paperwork - IF they arrive. The surcharges on purchases we make when we travel. The fact that we can't take out our own money from an ATM when we're outside of Argentina.

I'm not even talking about anything else - simply pointing out that the gov't actions have a huge and immediate direct impact on daily life here in a way that simply doesn't happen in the US.

I wasn't going after the OP for the sake of it, I hope s/he comes and enjoys it. But leaving the US b/c of the state of politics and gov't actions and choosing to come to Arg, well it just seemed to be fleeing the frying pan for the fire (IMO Obviously it's just an opinion, everybody has one.

 

[PhilipDT]

This is the problem on this forum, you will get very criticized, you will be told that all youre inputs are wrong, that you know nothing of history (doesnt matter if you have a degree in history, or like me, in sociology). The problem is that they, the people that do not agree with you, will never ever put or write something on argentine history. Maybe an article written by some journalist in foreign media, of course interested, of course with interests. They think the uS or the UK do not have interest in Argentine politics. So what they write is impartial. So you will be criticized, but they do not have a story. They criticize the "relato" but they dont have one. Pretty unbalanced.

Matias, I think you are wrong on an fundemental ideological basis, and that is why we exchange posts with some frequency, but it is not why I tell you you're wrong. I tell you that you are wrong because quite often you present 'facts' which simply aren't. For example in this very thread you mentioned Junin as an city which had experienced a large amount of growth since 2001, when in fact growth slowed considerably during that period compared to the previous one . Recently, in another thread, you said that supermarket chains here operate with over a 100% margin; that seemed unbelievable to me so I looked up the numbers for Jumbo/Disco/Vea and guess what? Not even close to 100%.

So don't confuse us saying your ideas are wrong, which is quite clearly just an exp<b></b>ression of a difference of opinions, with us correcting you when you are actually wrong about certain facts.

Also the problem that most of us have with the 'relato' is that when you already have the story so well defined, you're always going to try to fit the facts into the story rather than form the story from the facts. That's confirmation bias, which, as a sociology major, you should be familiar with.

 

[citygirl]

Oh and Matias - I didn't say the OP was wrong on what s/he stated when recounting the history. I said there was clear and evident bias based on the way it was written. And when that is someone's starting point, there usually is no point in having further discussions.

And that gov't decisions affect huge aspects of most people's lives here. Now if you're Steve and live in the campo and grow your own food, don't drive much so don't have to deal with the rising fuel costs, cortes due to protests, rise in toll prices, and don't run a business or hire employees nor count on local income, sure - the gov't actions probably don't affect your life all that much. For many of us who live here (not tourists passing through) and who don't live that life, they do. And it is at an entirely different level than occurs in the US. Whether that's better or worse, totally depends on your POV.

I don't typically comment on newcomer's posts but again, it just struck me as funny that someone would leave the US b/c of the perceived state of politics and gov't actions and choose to come here. That's all.

 

[natykerouac]

Yes, the paths for residency and citizenship are separate, but the "shuffle to Uruguay thing" isn't necessary to get your three years. In fact, you can begin the citizenship process one year after your first arrival in Argentina. The "old" requirement was three years of temporary residency followed by two years of permanent residency and has been obsolete for many years, but was being "applied" in most courts until Dr. Chistian Rubilar (aka bajo_cero2 here) began to challenge that policy a few years ago. He has been very successful representing foreign clients and has won many cases. If you apply for citizenship as early as one year after your arrival, you will need a lawyer.

There is a great deal of information in this forum that you will find informative. You can use the advanced search feature to research topics such as the investor visa, as well as citizenship for foreigners and temporary residency. Going to Uruguay every 90 days may result in a new 90 day visa (which you can extend once for 90 days at migaciones). This practice is still "tolerated" and the long expected "crackdown" on this practice by "pematourists" has not yet occurred. The law seems vague and it is up to the individual border agent to "determine" if the foreigner is circumventing the immigration requirements.

The investor visa requires an investment of a LOT of money and it can't be investments real estate. You would have to have an Argentine "partner" and that would no doubt increase your risk...a lot. My closest Argentine friends have told me several times that the biggest problem with Argentina (from the top to the bottom) is that, in general, the "people are not trustworthy" (though I have found trustworthy individuals in both Capital Federal and out in the province).

If you have an investment income from the USA of $2200 USD (monthly) you can apply for the financier visa (aka visa rentista). Just having money on deposit in the bank isn't enough.

Why do people do that rather than just get a student visa (if they're studying)? Is it really that hard to get a student visa?

 

[steveinbsas]

Why do people do that rather than just get a student visa (if they're studying)? Is it really that hard to get a student visa?

People who are studying "full time" and are actually enrolled in a university or school that is recognized by migraciones do get student visas and it is not difficult.

I got a pensioner visa when the requirement was much lower in pesos than it is today, but with the change in the official exchange rate, I might actually qualify now with the same "dollar" income that I had in 2006.

 

[Gringoboy]

San Martin?
You've got to be joking surely.
I know it well and only go there (via the nightmare Gl Paz) to:
A. See a client and fix their PC problems
B. Service the bike as he's the best in the business.
I certainly don't hang around there and get the hell out when finished.
What a dump.

 

[pmacay]

Hi there,
I read through all the replies to this topic and found it very interesting. We moved here from the USA in Oct 2000 as kind of a "change of life" thing as I've always loved Latin culture and how they seem to be able to balance life with the realities of work better then we do in the USA. The crises happened in Dec 2001. There were localized riots in public and governmental places, and people did get killed, I think the toll was around 68, but in the regular neighborhoods, life seemed pretty normal. People have to eat, so restaurants were open, supermarkets were open, you just couldn't get to a bank to pull out money for 3-4 months, but luckily everyone was accepting credit cards. I asked my Argentine friends, "Aren't you worried? Do you have food to eat?", they just kind of shrugged and said, "It's happened before, it'll happen again!" Argentines are pretty resilient with these little government/political/economic hickups.
It's been an amazing experience living here and we still love it, even after almost 14 years. I think the important considerations have already been mentioned, don't move here for political or economic reasons, move here because you want to live here and experience another way of living. Buenos Aires is an amazing city with lots of culture and night life, Argentines love live music so there are always places with a few musicians, playing for a few hours, with little cover charge and you sit and sip some fernet and soda with lemon while you enjoy yourself. If you're into nature, this is a huge country with lots of natural resources, in the south are permanent glaciers, the north has jungles and the west has the Andes with some of the most spectacular mountain lakes that rival anything in Switzerland. I've read a third of the population lives in the metropolitan Buenso Aires area, but it's quite easy to get out into the country (if you have a car, which we don't) in only 45 minutes (when the traffic is good) and enjoy a day at an estancia with horses and a great parrilla lunch.
To get back to the original question about getting out the Bs.As. area, well I can't comment on that as we've stayed in the city, but vacationing along the Atlantic coast in the Pinamar area (our favorite) there are lots of affordable housing options if you want to live along the coast.
Getting legal residency was a lot of paperwork, but relatively easy, I'm sure it's 10x harder for an Argentine to get legal residency in the USA. Friends of ours obtained legal residency before ever moving to Argentina in the embassy in Los Angeles, if you obtain residency first you can ship your things into the country without being taxed on them (if you plan on shipping lots of stuff, which I don't recommend as it's very expensive). I obtained legal residency using the "rentista" option because I have a rental property in California, but that option can be used for any form of uninterrupted monthly income, like an annuity. My partner obtained his residency with the "pensioner" option, which at the time was a much lower amount that was required then the "rentista" option.
In Argentina, laws on obtaining residency can change very quickly, so it's hard to give definite advice, but if you're looking into getting legal residency, do it before you get here using the closest Argentine embassy to you.
Good luck!
Pete & Ron (2 gringos living in Argentina and LOVING it!)

 

[Gringoboy]

Thanks Pete, that's a great summary of your life here, so far.
Cheers!